topic Re: Is ArchiCAD ever going back to the old Renovation Filter Options menu? in Documentation

Is ArchiCAD ever going back to the old Renovation Filter Options menu?

Ugljesa Janjic — Fri, 19 May 2023 13:32:05 GMT

I hate the new renovation filter. I absolutely don't know how to manage so many options, or to define new configurations. Is ArchiCAD thinking about going back to the old, simpler system?

Re: Is ArchiCAD ever going back to the old Renovation Filter Options menu?

Barry Kelly — Thu, 29 Nov 2018 01:12:36 GMT

The way the renovation filters are set up and work really hasn't changed between version 18 and 22.
The dialogue boxes are set out a little differently and we now have access to the RO from the quick options at the bottom of the screen.

What is it that you want to go back to?
Or what are you having trouble with? - maybe we can help.

Barry.

Re: Is ArchiCAD ever going back to the old Renovation Filter Options menu?

Ugljesa Janjic — Thu, 29 Nov 2018 02:30:36 GMT

Well my renovation filters from the new ArchiCAD 22 template show these options. They are more like layer combinations rather than Renovation Filter Options up to ArchiCAD 21. What are all these settings for IFC, BIMx, Energy Evaluation, Site Plan. How are those Renovation Filters?
Thanks for all your help.
Did I use a wrong template? I thought I used the standard ArchiCAD 22 template when starting a new project.
Thanks again.
Ugljesa

Re: Is ArchiCAD ever going back to the old Renovation Filter Options menu?

Barry Kelly — Thu, 29 Nov 2018 02:43:46 GMT

It seems like your template has way more filters set up than the standard AUS template.

I have no idea why there are so many in your file - it seems a little excessive.
I guess that is the problem with using someone else's template.
You either accept it for what it is or adjust it so it becomes your template.

If those filters make no sense and you don't think you will use them, then I would be inclined to delete them and start customising your own template.

Barry.

Re: Is ArchiCAD ever going back to the old Renovation Filter Options menu?

Ugljesa Janjic — Thu, 29 Nov 2018 02:50:48 GMT

Thank you very much, Barry.
I will see if someone else has the same issue or knows what is going on. My version is the US version and I used the standard template that came with the 22 installation.
I tried to find training for it but couldn't find anything. You would think that if they make such a change that they would provide training or explanation for it.
Oh well.
Thanks again.
Ugljesa

Re: Is ArchiCAD ever going back to the old Renovation Filter Options menu?

Ugljesa Janjic — Thu, 29 Nov 2018 03:13:50 GMT

Barry, thanks again. I just did what you suggested: created my new 01-05 combinations and left the other ones in place. Much more comfortable now.
I guess it is just learning that hurts us the most. 😉
Have a great day!

Re: Is ArchiCAD ever going back to the old Renovation Filter Options menu?

Barry Kelly — Thu, 29 Nov 2018 03:24:27 GMT

Ugljesa wrote:
I just did what you suggested: created my new 01-05 combinations and left the other ones in place. Much more comfortable now.

Good to hear.
I just had a look at the default USA version 21 template and it only had about 6 reno filters.
I don't have 22 USA version installed so I couldn't check that.

The learning part can be hard, especially when you have to go searching for the explanations.

Barry.

Re: Is ArchiCAD ever going back to the old Renovation Filter Options menu?

Erwin Edel — Thu, 29 Nov 2018 07:57:51 GMT

What you can do (and we do to a much smaller degree) is create custom renovation filters and use them to hide elements from other views.

For example we use a filter for our artist impressions: we set up a camera (camera 1) and populate the view with 3D cardboard people etc. We then select these objects and 'pin' them to a renovation filter called 'impression camera 1'. Repeat process if you have multiple cameras set up.

We also use one for a module workspace, to exclude items from quantity take off. Toggle the filter off when you modify the module in place, select items, save module, toggle filter 'pin' on again.

Hope that makes sense.

Still seems like an excessive list. Like someone took the idea to the extremes.

Re: Is ArchiCAD ever going back to the old Renovation Filter Options menu?

David Maudlin — Thu, 29 Nov 2018 13:14:10 GMT

Barry wrote:
I just had a look at the default USA version 21 template and it only had about 6 reno filters.
I don't have 22 USA version installed so I couldn't check that.

The USA 22 template has a Reno Filter option for each MVO Combination and Layer Combination. I don't use this template, so I don't know about the logic. Perhaps each View has the same Layer/MVO/Reno Combination for consistency.

David

Re: Is ArchiCAD ever going back to the old Renovation Filter Options menu?

Link — Thu, 29 Nov 2018 21:25:28 GMT

The main reason why there are so many is for consistency of view settings. This template is aimed at new users and it is a simple, easy to understand system to have the view settings with the same names.

It is also much more flexible as a whole. A change to a unique view setting only affects those types of views.

Consistency and flexibility do come at a cost of complexity, but these settings should be completely be usable out of the box. If you do need to make a change, make it once in the template and your system is set. The View List can help determine the ones you may want to delete if you want to take that route.

Cheers,
Link.

Re: Is ArchiCAD ever going back to the old Renovation Filter Options menu?

Erwin Edel — Mon, 03 Dec 2018 08:49:28 GMT

Wouldn't you need up to 5 of those for each view if you are doing a renovation project?

1. existing
2. to be demolished
3. after demolishing
4. to be built
5. new

This multiplied by floor plans, sections etc would make a very long and impractical list.

Re: Is ArchiCAD ever going back to the old Renovation Filter Options menu?

Link — Mon, 03 Dec 2018 15:48:03 GMT

No you just need one per view type. It's quite intuitive once you use it. And because it's pre-linked you needn't adjust them. Just set it and forget it.

Cheers,
Link.

Re: Is ArchiCAD ever going back to the old Renovation Filter Options menu?

Richard Morrison — Tue, 04 Dec 2018 00:19:00 GMT

Link wrote:
No you just need one per view type. It's quite intuitive once you use it. And because it's pre-linked you needn't adjust them. Just set it and forget it.

Cheers,
Link.

Link,
I'm with Erwin in trying to understand the logic of this system. I'm not saying it's wrong, but I'm not clear how it would be used. For example, I often need to show existing and proposed exterior elevations side by side. If the renovation filter is supposed to show "phases," I don't see how a single "exterior elevation" renovation filter is going to do this. Could you explain how this is intended to be used?

Re: Is ArchiCAD ever going back to the old Renovation Filter Options menu?

Link — Tue, 04 Dec 2018 05:15:40 GMT

I'm not sure who has and has not opened the file to check how it works, but I'd recommend anyone who is interested in this topic take a look to get a better grasp on it, as it's very intuitive. It's a pre-linked system - all views are created and placed on layouts from the outset, before the model is built.

That said there are existing plans and demo plans and floor plans (new construction). Each have view settings with matching names. Layer combos, MVO combos, Graphic overrides, dimension settings and renovation filters.

Out of the box they should work just fine, each displaying the existing, to be demolished, new items appropriately. If you need to alter the display of these items per renovation filter, you can make the change to one filter and it will only affect those views & drawings, no others. Similar to making a change to a layer combo will only affect the views that have that combo assigned to them.

In the template there are no existing and proposed elevations because we didn't want to overwhelm the new users. However if you did want these, you could follow the systematic approach and create unique view settings (layer combo, renovation filter, etc) and assign them to each view type (ie. Existing Elevations, Proposed Elevations). This would keep all view settings for each view type consistent throughout the template. You wouldn't use one setting for both view types.

Please keep in mind this is a shift in thinking and the template is aimed at new users, not experienced users who have or should have their own templates in place.

I hope that explains it better.

Cheers,
Link.

Re: Is ArchiCAD ever going back to the old Renovation Filter Options menu?

Erwin Edel — Tue, 04 Dec 2018 12:17:52 GMT

I get that for a new user stepping in there are a lot of options, no worries.

And I think you just confirmed my question, I'll leave out the judgement of if it is practical or not as I've had most of these features introduced over the years, rather than all at one time.

However, since we've hijacked the thread a bit already, the Dutch template (and ours which just has very minor adjustments) splits things a bit differently. Might be interesting to outline.

Layer combo's are very focused on the type of view (elevation, section, floor plan) at different scale levels.
Model view options are focused on the design stages.
Graphic overrides as well.
Renovation is independent of view type or design stage, so the list is very short.

The names are all very clear, so besides having the whole view set setup for all design stages of a project (template), it is quite intuitive to make a new view or cloned folder. What is the view type? What stage am I in? What renovation status?

Overall I get a feeling the Dutch standards are quite concise compared to other countries. Not many layers needed, pen sets have 10 pen weights for a few colours and the rest is just there for shades of colour and 4 or 5 stages of design to go through.

Re: Is ArchiCAD ever going back to the old Renovation Filter Options menu?

Anonymous — Tue, 04 Dec 2018 13:47:00 GMT

Link wrote:
Consistency and flexibility do come at a cost of complexity

I think it's rather contradictory. Simplicity gives you Consistency and Flexibility.

I had to manage numerous projects and prepared standard and templets from scratch. Because up to around AC 16 out of the box templets weren't very useful in real life, esspatilay those translated (in my case POL version). And those made by 3dr parties were usually overdone.

In many cases, Simplicity and Intuition was the only way to work it out during the lifetime of the project. So if you have so simple and Intuitive thing as Renovation status there is no benefit of changing it.

To be honest I don't even see the need for making different MOV and Graphic overrides for different drawing types. In 80% of cases, you need two styles Concept/Technical and rest are less used graphical styles like schemes, 3D renderings etc..
But doing different categories for Section, Plans and Elevations... It's going to be hard to keep track of it.

I am wondering if USA distributor makes some kind of analysis of how this template is really used.

Re: Is ArchiCAD ever going back to the old Renovation Filter Options menu?

Link — Wed, 05 Dec 2018 20:58:26 GMT

"Consistency and flexibility do come at a cost of complexity."
I think it's rather contradictory. Simplicity gives you Consistency and Flexibility.

This is the same thing, right?

It's easy to see the benefits of this system once you have used it. Less easy to defend it against people in other countries who presumably have never opened it, TBH. I do understand the specific purpose of each view setting very well, and I have seen hundreds of different approaches, but with the end-goal in mind this is what we decided was best for our new users.

I think the key point that may be being missed here is that the whole system is pre-linked. So you should rarely, if ever, have to go into these view settings.

In any case, personal preferences aside, I hope I was able to answer the original question.

Cheers,
Link.