topic Re: Reovation Tool - Demolishing part of a slab in Documentation

Renovation Tool - Demolishing part of a slab

Anonymous — Tue, 30 May 2023 08:02:05 GMT

Hi All,

The project I am currently working on requires the demolition of a few walls and a section of the slab to allow for a new extension. I assume that the correct way of drawing this would be to split the slab into two, put one onto existing and one on to demolished in the renovation status

The issue is, I am left with a line showing the separation of the two slabs on the existing floor plan. I find this a bit messy and it's not how I want the existing floor plan to show. How would you tackle this problem? Is there something I could do in the slab settings or perhaps that renovation tool settings to fix this? Or do I just need to put a white fill over the line?

Any help is appreciated.
Jake

Re: Reovation Tool - Demolishing part of a slab

Anonymous — Tue, 08 Mar 2016 01:01:35 GMT

This is the result on the existing floor plan. Notice the black line where I've split the slab

Re: Reovation Tool - Demolishing part of a slab

Anonymous — Tue, 08 Mar 2016 01:37:07 GMT

Instead of splitting the slab, I would duplicate the slab and assign one to each filter and when you switch filters it will swap out the slabs.

But you do have to put the slab thats in the existing filter on the demolished filter and the new slab on the new construction filter.

Re: Reovation Tool - Demolishing part of a slab

Anonymous — Tue, 08 Mar 2016 02:28:32 GMT

Thanks mbeam, that's a good idea. Seems neater than a fill

Re: Reovation Tool - Demolishing part of a slab

Anonymous — Tue, 08 Mar 2016 02:33:38 GMT

Actually, this is not ideal because when I look at the "new contruction" filter it shows the entire existing slab in yellow as if it is being demolished and also in red is if it is being reconstructed.

It would great if there was a way archicad could recognise that a slab is one element before demolition, then after the event it splits it into two slabs

Re: Reovation Tool - Demolishing part of a slab

Anonymous — Tue, 08 Mar 2016 04:53:31 GMT

Another issue with the renovation tool:

I have modeled the terrain of the site which is fairly flat, but most of the slabs cut into the existing mesh slightly. In these instances, I usually do a solid element operation to subtract the slab from the site with upward extrusion, so that the slab sits cleanly without earth sitting within or above the slab.

However, using the renovation tool, any SEO I have done for the new construction will show up on the existing and vice versa

This is the extent of the planned extension, including new paving (Please ignore the messiness of the image, very much a work in progress)

Re: Reovation Tool - Demolishing part of a slab

Anonymous — Tue, 08 Mar 2016 04:57:56 GMT

And these are the "holes" left in the ground when I go back and look at the existing filter, caused by the SEO's.

Surely there's a way of doing this as the construction would actually happen, ie, when looking at the existing, the earth has not yet been cut away for the new slabs, then when viewing the new they have.

The only method I can think of is to have 2 site meshes, one on existing and one on new, but again this is an inefficient workaround

Re: Reovation Tool - Demolishing part of a slab

alemanda — Tue, 08 Mar 2016 05:59:25 GMT

I agree. I had similar problems and I did what you did but I'm not happy .. Also the openings, new and to be demolished, in the slabs are a problem.
Hope gs might solve these issues ...

Re: Reovation Tool - Demolishing part of a slab

Anonymous — Tue, 08 Mar 2016 06:58:43 GMT

Ok so it's not just me!
I'm surprised this issue hasn't already been raised and solved by GS as the renovation tool has been around for a while (I just haven't had to use it before).

It's pretty simple really, for the renovation tool to work as intended, they really need to think about the reality of the construction process. Perhaps we could have options to actually input what work is going to happen to a particular element, ie a slab is going to be cut, land is going to be excavated, etc. That way Archicad could recognise when the results of these actions need to be seen and when they shouldn't.

Re: Reovation Tool - Demolishing part of a slab

alemanda — Tue, 08 Mar 2016 07:41:08 GMT

One workaround could be using a flat roof instead of a slab and use a custom-made skylight object. Practically the hole of skylight is used to have the part to be demolished ...
But this only in case the part to be demolished is inside the perimeter of the slab.

Re: Reovation Tool - Demolishing part of a slab

Erwin Edel — Tue, 08 Mar 2016 07:49:43 GMT

I think you could use SEO on the existing to make a hole, label the operator as new and end up with the proper results in the different renovation stages. You might even be able to use the new bit of slab for the SEO, depending on how thick it is.

Or just patch up the slab with a fill in existing and move on (sometimes the software needs improvements, but we don't have time to wait for ArchiCAD 21).

Re: Reovation Tool - Demolishing part of a slab

David Maudlin — Tue, 08 Mar 2016 13:22:22 GMT

jake_h03 wrote:
The issue is, I am left with a line showing the separation of the two slabs on the existing floor plan. I find this a bit messy and it's not how I want the existing floor plan to show. How would you tackle this problem? Is there something I could do in the slab settings or perhaps that renovation tool settings to fix this? Or do I just need to put a white fill over the line?

Rather than a Fill, I use a Line. In my pen set I have a series of white lines that are slightly thicker than the standard line weights for hiding Lines, easier than using a Fill.

David

Re: Reovation Tool - Demolishing part of a slab

alemanda — Tue, 08 Mar 2016 13:45:09 GMT

In my experience fills are more useful than lines ... At least they can be included in the schedules ... So you can have quantities related to these items.
Also fills can be hidden by MVO without pen-sets magics (which are a nightmare for autocad users who will handle our archicad drawings)

Re: Reovation Tool - Demolishing part of a slab

Anonymous — Thu, 10 Mar 2016 14:20:40 GMT

jake_h03 wrote:
Actually, this is not ideal because when I look at the "new contruction" filter it shows the entire existing slab in yellow as if it is being demolished and also in red is if it is being reconstructed.

It would great if there was a way archicad could recognise that a slab is one element before demolition, then after the event it splits it into two slabs

I would duplicate the reno filters and turn off the highlighting in those.

edit: it's been a while since I used the reno filter but I was remembering there was something about that but I don't have AC handy to check it. Like it actually isn't in the filter but how the filters are controlled, maybe? But you can turn off the highlighting anyways because at least I can remember I didn't use it when I use the filter.

Re: Reovation Tool - Demolishing part of a slab

Anonymous — Thu, 10 Mar 2016 15:19:19 GMT

jake_h03 wrote:
The only method I can think of is to have 2 site meshes, one on existing and one on new, but again this is an inefficient workaround

I could make a whole discussion out of this but basically I don't see anyway around this as the math is impossible. It's like A=B and A=C but B≠C. And I can feel Graphisoft's pain as I used to control this with layers before the reno tool and trust me, the logic and the layer list gets complex and long.

That's why when I model I do the as built first because it exists and isn't changing, then I duplicate the grade and then modify that for the proposed. I rarely run into situations where I have to go back and modify the existing as it exists. But I have used the reno filters for new construction and variants and there are times when I have to be careful because I have to be careful to modify both slabs.

Everything aside, I could be giving you bad advice since this is just by experience and someone may have a better, or the correct way of doing this.

Re: Reovation Tool - Demolishing part of a slab

Anonymous — Thu, 10 Mar 2016 18:27:50 GMT

ok, just figured out (I think) the renovation tool. First, build everything in the 'existing' mode; then go into the model and give each window, door, piece of wall, library part or roof its designation on the filter...existing, to be demolished, after demolition, new construction and planned status.

I cut out the area of the roof that will be demolished and placed it on the 'to be demolished' section which you can do with the mesh by cutting out what needs to change so that you have the main mesh to remain (existing), and what you are removing (to be demolished), then the replacement mesh will be (new construction)...you can then open the 3d model and scroll through the renovation selections: existing, to be demolished, after demolition, new construction and planned status to check and make adjustments.

If you are unable to see something, push the show all button which will allow everything to show and further adjustments to be made.

mbeam wrote:
jake_h03 wrote:
The only method I can think of is to have 2 site meshes, one on existing and one on new, but again this is an inefficient workaround

I could make a whole discussion out of this but basically I don't see anyway around this as the math is impossible. It's like A=B and A=C but B≠C. And I can feel Graphisoft's pain as I used to control this with layers before the reno tool and trust me, the logic and the layer list gets complex and long.

That's why when I model I do the as built first because it exists and isn't changing, then I duplicate the grade and then modify that for the proposed. I rarely run into situations where I have to go back and modify the existing as it exists. But I have used the reno filters for new construction and variants and there are times when I have to be careful because I have to be careful to modify both slabs.

Everything aside, I could be giving you bad advice since this is just by experience and someone may have a better, or the correct way of doing this.

Re: Reovation Tool - Demolishing part of a slab

gotphish001 — Wed, 13 Feb 2019 18:22:59 GMT

I know this thread is old but it's the newest one I found with the same problem I am having.

I have a floor slab that needs part of it removed for demo to allow new stairs to go through it. The demoed hole is along one edge of the existing slab. The best thing I found to do was to draw a separate slab on top of the existing one that is the shape that I want demoed. I then make the outline line of this slab to be demoed white. It then doesn't show up in existing reno filter but in demo filter it shows up. This would be a perfect solution except one issue. Since the demoed portion is touching the edge of the existing slab, on the demoed filter it shows my dashed demo line on top of the existing solid line for that one edge.

Has this been fixed or other work arounds?

Re: Reovation Tool - Demolishing part of a slab

David Maudlin — Thu, 14 Feb 2019 13:47:33 GMT

Nick:

A workaround is to add two new nodes to the existing slab in the same location as the corners of the demo slab. This will force new dashed line spacing that matches the demo slab. The downside is that these new nodes will add vertical lines at those points on the edge of the slab. Or you could cut out the existing slab where it is being demolished and leave the demo slab.

David

Re: Renovation Tool - Demolishing part of a slab

gotphish001 — Fri, 15 Feb 2019 22:02:22 GMT

I get what you mean by starting the dashes over, but my existing slab isn't dashed. It looks dashed in the picture but that is another line that is over top of it. You can see that dashed line continue. It's a roof. It was to show knee wall locations. The slab line is a light grey. It's a little hard to see I guess.

First attempt was to just cut out the demoed portion as you mention. That didn't work because on my existing plans the existing slab had a cut out in it that wasn't cut out yet. I normally would combine existing and demo into one plan, but this project is just confusing so I made both. It's an old residential house. Four stories with winder steps all over the place, a crazy roof, chimneys that are different sizes on each floor and sunken living spaces. It was a major pain to field measure. Not the best project for my second project in archicad as I'm trying to learn it.

What I ended up doing was making the outline of the existing slab white. That worked fine for this project. We will see if it works on others.

Re: Renovation Tool - Demolishing part of a slab

gotphish001 — Fri, 15 Feb 2019 22:10:01 GMT

To clarify my last comment because the image wasn't zoomed out as much as I thought.

The black dashed line on the left is showing the inside face of the wall below. That same dashed line goes under my demo line that I point to. That side of the line shows the back of the knee wall. I had those in there because we wanted to see if we had room to put some HVAC in the knee walls. I didn't realize I had them turned on.

The actual existing slab was light grey as I tried that first before I tried white. If you look above or below my demoed slab you can just see the grey solid line under the black dashed line that I have for the knee wall space.