topic Re: Renovation: Ganged Windows in Documentation

Renovation: Ganged Windows

Lingwisyer — Fri, 26 May 2023 00:10:47 GMT

Hi all,

I have a window that is to be removed (width marked by witness lines on the right) and replaced by a larger series of windows. In "Demolishing" this window, a "New" wall is created to fill the hole left behind. A new set of ganged windows is then created spanning over this hole.

It would appear that "New" walls created by "Demolishing" prevent windows, and I would assume doors, from ganging in plan within their area? Is there something I have missed or some work around to get them to gang properly?

Ling.

Re: Renovation: Ganged Windows

DGSketcher — Wed, 05 Aug 2020 08:57:53 GMT

Is this possibly one of those cases where you also need to mark the whole wall or part of it for demolition and then put in a new wall with your openings?

Re: Renovation: Ganged Windows

Lingwisyer — Wed, 05 Aug 2020 09:27:19 GMT

One window was set as "Demolished" while the other is set to "New". The "New" wall is the automatic fill when you demolish something that penetrates the existing wall.

As in create a second wall set to "New" in which the new windows live? I guess that would work.

Ling.

Re: Renovation: Ganged Windows

DGSketcher — Wed, 05 Aug 2020 09:31:36 GMT

I was suggesting that the section of the wall with the demolished windows should also be demolished, I don't think AC is currently clever enough to resolve the conflict between demolished and new openings.

Re: Renovation: Ganged Windows

Lingwisyer — Wed, 05 Aug 2020 09:38:06 GMT

It would seem to be the case. Manually splitting and setting the relevant walls to demolished works fine, thanks.

Ling.

Re: Renovation: Ganged Windows

ChrisB — Wed, 05 Aug 2020 22:20:26 GMT

Ling,

Another option…

Working on the principal of modelling as it’s built, situations like yours had always been a bit of a headache e.g. splitting walls vertically & horizontally, demolishing walls that didn't need to be demolished etc. This all changed for me with the introduction of the opening tool & made renovation projects (the vast majority of work we do) so much easier.

Each door/window always has an equivalent opening (it carries the same ID as the door/window for ease of reference). If the door or window is removed, the opening remains…no automatic replacement of sections of wall…just like real life. Then the process for a new door/window would be as follows…

Direct replacement…just add to wall & sit over the opening
Smaller replacement…add new piece of wall to opening, then add new smaller window to new wall
Larger replacement…add new larger opening (I normally make this bigger than the new window/door to cover lintel installation & work to jambs) to existing wall & mark opening as proposed. Add new piece of wall to fill the new opening, then add door/window to new wall

The openings & new walls can all be scheduled & the section of wall affected by the new proposed opening, shows as demolished. Apart from seeing an axis line & cross at each opening (intentional but tailored for each view), the only imperfection is that you can’t limit the 2D graphical representation of the opening to a particular story i.e if it spans two stories, then it’s shown on both. Having said that, I quite like it now but it would help to tidy up views for the untrained eye…

Re: Renovation: Ganged Windows

Barry Kelly — Thu, 06 Aug 2020 01:17:21 GMT

I am a big advocate for "model it as it is built".
But in the case of renovation filters, I find it is better to remove and replace (demolish and new) entire elements, and in the case of windows and doors the wall (or portion of the wall) that the door/window belongs to.

So you may be demolishing an existing window and replacing with a bigger or smaller one, then demolish a section of the wall at least as big as the largest of the windows you are swapping.
In reality you may not need to demolish the wall, but it works better in Archicad.

Same when you just need to add a new skin to a wall.
You don't need to physically demolish the wall, but in Archicad you do if you want to replace it with a single wall composite.

Barry.

Re: Renovation: Ganged Windows

ChrisB — Thu, 06 Aug 2020 06:12:30 GMT

Barry,

Before the opening tool, the way you suggest doing it, is the way I used to model (but replace composite with complex profile with profile modifiers). However, having now used the opening tool method on various renovation projects involving significant changes to the existing building structure, I find that it achieves the same results & more e.g. accurate assessment of demolition areas, fine tuning of opening sizes especially below doors where floors pass through etc

As for new skins, I always model finishes separately to the core wall structure, so I just add the new skin e.g. plasterboard & skim dabbed to walls, to the existing wall. The room already has a zone touching the existing wall internal boundaries, so just select a standard complex profile & magic wand (with offset) to zone boundary. Fine tune each skin using the profile modifiers, then add each wall passing over an opening, to the opening. This way, I can just schedule the new skin & highlight it as a new element using graphic overrides…

Re: Renovation: Ganged Windows

Barry Kelly — Thu, 06 Aug 2020 06:32:58 GMT

With the extra separate skins and the opening tool, it sounds like what you need now is for doors and windows to have a similar opening body as the opening tool.
Then you could just associate the extra skins to the current door/window object.
Hopefully one day this can be a reality - I think once GS creates a polygonal opening option, then it could be possible.

Barry.

Re: Renovation: Ganged Windows

Lingwisyer — Fri, 14 Aug 2020 04:16:29 GMT

Chris,

With your method, how do you get it to show the demolished windows in plan? Their openings get overridden by the new Opening as empty fills when the Opening is set to symbolic and there does not seem to be a way to change the draw order. Do you resort to creating an Opening on each side of each door/window?

In 3D, the Demolition overrides are filling all of the windows...

Ling.

Re: Renovation: Ganged Windows

ChrisB — Sun, 23 Aug 2020 12:13:47 GMT

Barry,

Similar thoughts but as you can’t have a window/door without first forming the opening, I would prefer it if the window/door object was associated with/attached to the opening instead i.e opening tool becomes the primary tool with window/door as option. Ideally…
Place opening in wall using enhanced (custom shape, lintel option, cavity closers option, display on home story only, invisible fill option to boundary instead of inherit from wall) opening tool

Add standard Archicad window/door object to opening i.e. no longer associated to wall but associated with opening instead. Move the opening, the window/door/lintel/cavity closers move with it etc

Following issue of basic window/door schedule, the ability to replace the standard window/door object with specific object provided by preferred window/door manufacturer showing correct structure/detail etc

Ling,

I normally only use one opening per window/door & highlighting demolished elements hasn’t been a problem (so far) although I vaguely remember having to play around/fine tune the opening/renovation settings to get this to work the way I wanted it.

In the images you provided…
are you saying that the window should be showing but it can’t be seen (in the layout or 3D) due to the empty fill of the opening?

can you explain further how you’ve setup this configuration up e.g. window (with or without opening?) set as To Be Demolished?; with new opening (same size or larger than existing?) set as Proposed?; new window set as Proposed?

can you show how you’d (ideally) want it to look?

Re: Renovation: Ganged Windows

Lingwisyer — Fri, 28 Aug 2020 04:52:09 GMT

Existing wall, Demolished narrow window, New set of five ganged windows with a wider overall width, New opening matching new width.

In the Demolition Filter the windows to be demolished are hidden by the new wider opening; a white fill in plan and the wall surface in everything else.

Ling.