topic Re: Automatically showing the "excluded" space under the roof? in Documentation

Automatically showing the "excluded" space under the roof?

Karol Lozinski — Fri, 19 May 2023 13:21:38 GMT

Hello,
Is it possible to do? I mean like automatically show the 220cm height under the ceiling and 140 cm? I know that ArchiCAD "knows" the right values to do this as there is this option.

So is it possible to use this info? Maybe using graphic override? Maybe showing it with a fill? I can't find a way to get it.

Re: Automatically showing the "excluded" space under the roof?

David Maudlin — Mon, 10 Feb 2020 13:46:12 GMT

Karol Lozinski:

There is a command, Create Roof Level Lines..., which will draw Lines at the a height specified for the elected Roof(s). These lines are not dynamic. You could have ArchiCAD place these lines, then document from there. You may need to add this command to your Work Environment.

David

Re: Automatically showing the "excluded" space under the roof?

Laszlo Nagy — Tue, 11 Feb 2020 00:45:41 GMT

I think this could be done using the ARCHICAD-Grasshopper Connection. You could get the geometry of those Roofs, and calculate in Grasshopper how much of a Room's are is below a specified level of the Roof, and based on that you could generated ARCHICAD Fills from Grasshopper.
I have not tried it, but I think it could work.

Re: Automatically showing the "excluded" space under the roof?

Karol Lozinski — Tue, 11 Feb 2020 17:45:32 GMT

@David Maudlin - Thank you for the help! This is quite close to what I would want. Though it's static and sadly there's not much you can do with it. Thanks anyway!

@LaszloNagy - Also thank you! I am pretty sure that this would work although I have a feeling that using Grasshoper to do such thing is like trying to kill a fly with a canon. Seems to be a slight overkill, but thanks for the idea nontheless! It might be usefull with some bigger bulding than a house

Well, maybe such thing will be introduced sometime in the future Of course if anyone has some ninja-technique I am still very interested! Thank you all for help.

Re: Automatically showing the "excluded" space under the roof?

DGSketcher — Tue, 11 Feb 2020 22:18:51 GMT

It can be done, but in the past I have always just marked up with a 2D graphic, but I guess it depends on how often you need to do it.

OK, so you have your room, floor level & roofs. You need first to fill the room with a morph that sits on the floor and has a depth to match the height you need, in your comments say 140cm. The morph needs to be on its own layer with a unique intersection value so it can be easily hidden and won't interfere with other elements. Now use trim to roof on the morph. Doing it this way means if anything moves the hatch will adjust.

The way the hatch is displayed is a bit odd, in that the cover fill setting is applied to the cut, but it works. To create the required hatch at the cut you need to have a surface material with the required hatch pattern in its definition. This surface is then applied to the building material you will use for the morph. To try and explain a bit better, duplicate the blue glass surface material and add the required Vectorial Hatching. Now create a new Building Material - "Roof Void" using the duplicate blue glass surface. Now change the morph building material to use "Roof Void". If you have morph settings like mine you should then end up with hatched roof voids in plan.

I'll be honest and say I haven't used this as a solution in my projects and there may be unwanted graphics in your drawings but it does achieve what you requested and can be used as a starting point.

Re: Automatically showing the "excluded" space under the roof?

Laszlo Nagy — Wed, 12 Feb 2020 01:00:06 GMT

That is an interesting and imaginative solution.

Re: Automatically showing the "excluded" space under the roof?

DGSketcher — Wed, 12 Feb 2020 10:24:19 GMT

I must admit I was surprised at the hatching method. To some extent I am inclined to suggest the hatching process is a bug. The output is principally correct, but I would have expected the hatched area that is created by the roof to be treated as a cut, (which it is), and therefore use the cut fills option of the building material rather than the Vectorial Hatching. I would then have expected, having turned on the the cover fills, for the surface hatching to be applied to the other exposed surfaces of the morph. Anybody else minded that the hatch type and cover fill application is flawed?

Re: Automatically showing the "excluded" space under the roof?

Laszlo Nagy — Wed, 12 Feb 2020 17:04:14 GMT

Yes, I see what you mean. I will report this to GRAPHISOFT and ask them if this was by design or it is a "useful bug".

Re: Automatically showing the "excluded" space under the roof?

Karol Lozinski — Tue, 18 Feb 2020 10:25:06 GMT

I guess that the thread is already lost in the crowd, but somehow I haven't got a notification, thus didn't know about the replies. This is a brilliant sollution! And exacly what I needed! I am really impressed and thank you, thank you soo much!

Re: Automatically showing the "excluded" space under the roof?

Minh Nguyen — Tue, 18 Feb 2020 13:28:42 GMT

DGSketcher wrote:
I must admit I was surprised at the hatching method. To some extent I am inclined to suggest the hatching process is a bug. The output is principally correct, but I would have expected the hatched area that is created by the roof to be treated as a cut, (which it is), and therefore use the cut fills option of the building material rather than the Vectorial Hatching. I would then have expected, having turned on the the cover fills, for the surface hatching to be applied to the other exposed surfaces of the morph. Anybody else minded that the hatch type and cover fill application is flawed?

Hi all,

Thank you for sharing the question here!

DGSketcher, thank you very much for contributing the solution to this issue! But for some reason, I cannot reproduce it in with my own computer, having tested on both AC23 INT and UKI (I feel so embarrassed right now!). Below are my settings:

The morph is well below Floor Plan Cut Plane. From the look of this, it looks like the vectorial hatching works correctly in this case.

Did I miss anything here? Thank you very much!

Best regards,
Minh

Re: Automatically showing the "excluded" space under the roof?

DGSketcher — Tue, 18 Feb 2020 15:46:53 GMT

@Minh, a critical part of this is the cut plane needs to be just below the top morph surface, this is why I was wrongly expecting to see the cover fill on the top rather than the cut. It would also appear the material definition is critical to the appearance. I have attached my BM setting which may help.

As I said earlier, I was thinking if the cut plane is above the morph top surface then the surface cover fill would be visible on the top and where the morph is cut by the roof then the Building Material cut fill would be displayed.

Re: Automatically showing the "excluded" space under the roof?

Minh Nguyen — Wed, 19 Feb 2020 11:45:32 GMT

Hi,

Now I get it! So it seems like with morph, it used the wrong cut fill when it is shown in Floor plan: either with Vectorial Hatching (when SEO is active), or with Building Material's own cut fill (in case of Section/Floor Plan Cut Plane).

The problem is that, you cannot set a cut fill for a morph, this fill depends only on Building Material's settings. I will ask our developers to see if this could be a potential bug (or feature )

I will announce the investigation's result once I have the conclusion from the developers. Thank you for your help!

Best regards,
Minh

Re: Automatically showing the "excluded" space under the roof?

Minh Nguyen — Mon, 09 Mar 2020 10:40:47 GMT

Hi All,

I have received a confirmation from the developers. This is, in fact, a design decision. The Cut part made by the Roof is covered by Vectorial Hatching (or Cover Fill), not by material's Cut Fill. If you change the Cut Plane height, the stripes width will change. This behavior is more or less the same as the Roof's Cover Fill.

In short, this is not a defect. I hope this is understandable to you all!
Thank you very much!

I wish you a great week ahead!

Best regards,
Minh

Re: Automatically showing the "excluded" space under the roof?

DGSketcher — Mon, 09 Mar 2020 11:42:27 GMT

It's ok, I won't shoot the messenger BUT how on earth is that remotely logical as a "design decision"?

So did the design team meeting go like this...

Dev1: A morph has been trimmed by the roof, the users think it isn't displayed correctly, how should we represent the cut surface on plan?

Dev2: We've discussed this before, we need to show the cover fill rather than the Morph's Building Material cut definition because this is the quirky thinking that makes Archicad different. If we show it as a cut that would be too much like a logical solution.

If I wanted to display the cover fill I would have redefined the morph to its trimmed shape & removed the "cut".

Sorry, I don't know what planet the Developers come from but I don't think it's Earth.

Re: Automatically showing the "excluded" space under the roof?

Minh Nguyen — Mon, 09 Mar 2020 11:52:46 GMT

Hi,

Let me ask the developer again. What you said is completely true, and is similar to what I thought, but I can understand their point also. I will get back to you once I have an explanation from them!

Best regards,
Minh

Re: Automatically showing the "excluded" space under the roof?

Minh Nguyen — Tue, 24 Mar 2020 15:48:33 GMT

Hi,

After some discussion, I came to the conclusion that this is a limitation of ARCHICAD, but also a design decision. While the representation of other elements shown in floor plan (for example: Roof) is mostly symbolic, Morph is 3D projected. Unfortunately, SEO's effect is hardly displayed correctly on the floorplan.

At the same time, the Morph is defined to be a monolithic element, therefore if you cut a morph, in 3D, the cover surface will be visible in the cut part. If this cut part is visible in the floor plan, the cover fill will be shown here, due to the nature of Floor Plan Display (Projected: shows cut part of the element’s 3D model, plus its uncut (downward) part).

In short, this issue is a limitation (SEO effect on floor plan display), and a design decision (Morph is monolithic) at the same time.

I hope this will be understandable! Let me know if there is any further question you would like to ask!

Have a nice day, and stay safe!

Best regards,
Minh