topic Re: PBC of duplicated module on floors above and below in Documentation

PBC of duplicated module on floors above and below

strom32 — Mon, 10 Jan 2022 05:31:12 GMT

As per the subject. We have a project that has duplicated the floor plan over 10 stories and we are finding that the module is not performing PBC to itself. We have check the settings and obvious issues which are set correctly. Are there any non-obvious settings that must be set for this to work?

Re: PBC of duplicated module on floors above and below

DGSketcher — Mon, 10 Jan 2022 09:52:17 GMT

@strom32 The non-obvious settings may be obvious to others. You might want to be a bit more specific about your PBC issues, it could be something really simple or it may be a known issue.

Re: PBC of duplicated module on floors above and below

Lukas Zeleny — Mon, 10 Jan 2022 11:27:48 GMT

What number has priority of module Master Layer of the module? It interferes with PBC. It shoud be set to "0" othervise it will change priorities of object layers in module.

Re: PBC of duplicated module on floors above and below

strom32 — Wed, 12 Jan 2022 00:41:58 GMT

Hmm, I thought that would work and tried it but it didn't. Your reply is a example of non-obvious solutions that if correct should be included in the Archicad Manual. We can't find anything in the manual that would assist us in this instance. All media that we can find for PBC demonstrates PBC with non-moduled models and no complexity.

Re: PBC of duplicated module on floors above and below

strom32 — Wed, 12 Jan 2022 00:43:51 GMT

I should mention too that the module has no problems with SEO to elements that are not within itself and that are not other modules.

Re: PBC of duplicated module on floors above and below

strom32 — Wed, 12 Jan 2022 00:44:41 GMT

I should mention too that the module has no problems with SEO to elements that are not within itself and that are not other modules so far.

Re: PBC of duplicated module on floors above and below

DGSketcher — Wed, 12 Jan 2022 03:52:29 GMT

Modules are notoriously bad for maintaining building materials. If a material name is changed (duplicated) on import due to a mismatch, however minor, the building materials will not merge.

Re: PBC of duplicated module on floors above and below

DGSketcher — Wed, 12 Jan 2022 03:58:36 GMT

Is your module geometry and placement absolutely accurate? Even a tiny drafting error will create joint lines.

Re: PBC of duplicated module on floors above and below

Lukas Zeleny — Wed, 12 Jan 2022 08:10:22 GMT

Samplel of your file would help in search for solution. Can you share it?

It is quiet interresting problem. We use modules a lot and I have never experineced a major problem with PBC so it will help us prevent them.

Re: PBC of duplicated module on floors above and below

strom32 — Wed, 12 Jan 2022 23:13:15 GMT

We place our storey modules in the same model on the negative levels. So they exist sub-tereanean and are then published and hotlinked into the model on the positive levels. So we suspect Building Material mismatches are not possible with this method.

Re: PBC of duplicated module on floors above and below

strom32 — Thu, 13 Jan 2022 01:15:37 GMT

Yes we are constantly checking this, as you know half your time in AC requires this to be part of your documentation task on large projects. A ceiling slab to concrete floor slab PBC should still work as long as they overlap and ceiling building material is set weaker anyway...

Re: PBC of duplicated module on floors above and below

Ignacio Azpiazu — Thu, 13 Jan 2022 05:23:44 GMT

You probably know this already, you would have noticed duplicate building materials already if this were an issue, but since it was mentioned: if somebody makes a change to some material, publishes, and updates while somebody else has stuff reserved (or was it Materials reserved? I always ask everybody out, or find myself a time when everybody is out, for something like this), then you get duplicate materials.

I always place modules on the Archicad layer, so as not to have to include the module layer in each layer combination, except in very precise cases such as shell and infill buildings in which elements in unit interior modules share the same element layers as those in building common areas, so by turning off the master layer you get the shell only.

The picture you uploaded is baffling. I would check duplicates, check that I am not publishing nested modules, or elements displaying on stories above or below getting pubished with the module, and getting duplicated that way.

Re: PBC of duplicated module on floors above and below

strom32 — Thu, 13 Jan 2022 05:31:04 GMT

Thanks Ignacio, in your experience do nested modules in modules create conumdrums for Archicad? We have a module in a module in this case. However we would think GS have considered this probability..

Re: PBC of duplicated module on floors above and below

Ignacio Azpiazu — Thu, 13 Jan 2022 17:40:27 GMT

Setup for module-in-module needs to be planned with care (no rocket science, though; a couple of basics need to be watched out for). Life is easier with nested off, but sometimes you really need to use them. Say you have a unit plan module, and within it a HVAC unit module which repeats across different unit plans, so module-in-module is the only way to go. If the HVAC module master layer is on, all its elements will (obviously) get published in the HVAC module along with the unit plan module, even if you don't see them in the unit module publishing view. I have not done it for a couple of years now, but I remember thinking it through quite seriously. I'd have to check what I did exactly the last time (and I can't check now, but can if needed after Tuesday), but off the top of my head a bulletproof path would be to publish the HVAC modules and place them into the unit creation stories, and then publish the units with nested modules off and all the desired HVAC module element layers visible, so that the HVAC elements will show on the unit plan publishing view (the HVAC mod master layer will obviously be visible in the unit plan publishing view, but with nested-off the HVAC module will not be carried through as a module with the unit plan into the building plan).

Have you checked duplicates? Messed up setups for nested modules immediately result in duplicate elements, their numbers doubling with every update, so it very soon gets crazy.

The other killer is elements from other stories visible. Just say no. And unless some exceptional situation requires otherwise, everything displaying symbolic, own story only.

Re: PBC of duplicated module on floors above and below

strom32 — Sun, 16 Jan 2022 22:59:59 GMT

We are currently resigned to modelling the ceilings so they do not intersect/overlap with the floor slab over. We suspect PBC of modules to itself in Archicad is problematic. Shame since this is the whole reason you would want to use it. Is it not... Would like to see someone from GS here confirm or not whether this is the case. For now there is no obvious or non-obvious solutions

Re: PBC of duplicated module on floors above and below

Lukas Zeleny — Mon, 17 Jan 2022 08:25:04 GMT

Sample of your file would help in search for solution. Can you share it?