topic Helvetica Font off centre in Documentation

Helvetica Font off centre

Brendon Reid — Wed, 17 May 2023 13:41:04 GMT

Hi All

I have encountered a Font issue that is not specific to Archicad version or platform. I have a commercial Font (Helvetica) that displays offset from its centre. It means that when called into an object (such as a Label or Marker etc), it never displays in the position intended. See attached image: 'OFFSET FONT' is the offending font - notice it sits higher in its bounding box. 'PERFECTLY ALIGNED FONT' is how most other fonts locate within its bounding box. It has nothing to do with the Text Style setting 'Leading' as this is set to 100%.

I have tested this in multiple Archicad versions (22,23,24,25) and on both Windows 10 and Mac OS 10 and 11. Has anyone else experienced this? Does anyone know of a fix? It is driving me around the bend!

Re: Helvetica Font off centre

Barry Kelly — Thu, 24 Feb 2022 06:32:13 GMT

I am on Windows but am not seeing this.

What happens if you mix Arial (or another font) and Helvetica all in the same piece of text.

Barry.

Re: Helvetica Font off centre

Brendon Reid — Thu, 24 Feb 2022 06:47:38 GMT

See attached. Adding another font to the textbox does appear to 'recentre' it. It is bizarre. This is actually a client (on Windows) who I developed a template for who is using this Font. We have had nothing but trouble. I am wondering if it started with me developing a template on Mac with this font and passed the issue on. I might try a New & Reset All on Windows and start with this font outside the template and see. Cheers

Re: Helvetica Font off centre

Barry Kelly — Thu, 24 Feb 2022 07:05:53 GMT

That is strange.

Is it the same if you go Helvetica/Arial in the same text?

This is the info for Helvetica when I open the font file.

Barry.

Re: Helvetica Font off centre

Brendon Reid — Thu, 24 Feb 2022 07:36:33 GMT

I should have clarified, the font name is actually 'Helvetica LT Pro' and is an OpenType font. There have been issues in the past with OpenType fonts according to here https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Design-forum/Open-Type-Fonts-Shift/m-p/145228/page/2?attachment-id=16959 . I have just opened Windows 10 and the same issue is occurring in a brand new Archicad session. I wonder if it is actually a bug?

Re: Helvetica Font off centre

Barry Kelly — Thu, 24 Feb 2022 07:52:46 GMT

It gets even more interesting.

When I look at the properties for my Arial font, it is an Open Type font.

So I am guessing it can't be a problem with all open type fonts.

I just checked through some more OT fonts - some are OK and some are shifted.

Calibri for example is shifted up.

Must be to do with how the font was created and Archicad just doesn't handle it well.

Barry.

Re: Helvetica Font off centre

Lingwisyer — Thu, 24 Feb 2022 10:51:56 GMT

Looking at your images, your text alignment looks fine... What is different is your Space Above. Hence why it looks normal when with another font. Without the other font on the same line, it is shrinking your bounding box. If you multiline, does the Space Above have an impact or does it use Line Spacing?

Ling.

Re: Helvetica Font off centre

Eduardo Rolon — Thu, 24 Feb 2022 10:55:12 GMT

This has been a Mac bug Issue since IIRC AC12, I gave up on reporting it during the Betas.

Re: Helvetica Font off centre

Brendon Reid — Fri, 25 Feb 2022 01:17:10 GMT

Hi Eduardo

Unfortunately, my issue is not specific to Mac in this instance. I can replicate on both Mac and Windows!

Re: Helvetica Font off centre

Brendon Reid — Fri, 25 Feb 2022 01:21:53 GMT

Hi Ling

Yes, the space above is impacted. Multiline doesn't change anything. Line Spacing occurs, but the Text still offsets up

Re: Helvetica Font off centre

Lingwisyer — Fri, 25 Feb 2022 01:28:05 GMT

So, if you line up the bottoms of two text boxes, and put multiple lines of text in both, one in Helv LT Pro and the other in some other default font, the top lines become out of line?

Re: Helvetica Font off centre

Karl Ottenstein — Fri, 25 Feb 2022 01:53:59 GMT

If it is happening on both platforms, Brendon, then it is likely a glitch in the invisible 'font metrics' embedded in that OpenType font. You might look for a free font editor that lets you examine the metrics, or see if the vendor has an update.

If you have Adobe apps, you might try seeing what the bounding box is in Illustrator or Photoshop vs a font that centers text vertically?

Re: Helvetica Font off centre

Karl Ottenstein — Fri, 25 Feb 2022 02:02:36 GMT

P.S. to last message (can't edit message from Safari for some reason)... I just tested with Photoshop... and a variety of the 100's of fonts I have show the issue you're seeing. In PS, if you have it, place some text, highlight it, and then with the font drop-down, just moved your mouse down the list of fonts. The text changes dynamically as rapidly as you drag into the various fonts... and all kinds of fonts have spacing like you're seeing... and some much worse. I'm guessing that the font metrics for these fonts allocate space for some kind of subscripts or other below-the-line elements included in the font. So.... I'd recommend just switching to a font that 'works' (or get a font editor and 'fix' yours if attached to it).

Re: Helvetica Font off centre

Brendon Reid — Fri, 25 Feb 2022 02:10:25 GMT

Hi Ling

See attached. You are right, the Line Spacing is actually impacted. Other than the font itself, the text settings are identical

Re: Helvetica Font off centre

Brendon Reid — Fri, 25 Feb 2022 02:15:12 GMT

Hi Karl

Really appreciate you looking into this and making comments. Unfortunately, I think you might be right! It is frustrating that these problems aren't identified until after their purchase!

Re: Helvetica Font off centre

Lingwisyer — Fri, 25 Feb 2022 07:03:13 GMT

Ok, so AC lets fonts dictate the line spacing. Always used the same two fonts that have the same spacing so did not know that. If you are able to edit the font, you will want to increase the Ascent of the font.

Ling.