topic Re: Library and layer management with .mod-files in Documentation

Library and layer management with .mod-files

PVBergkrantz — Fri, 26 May 2023 10:17:39 GMT

Hello. I am having some difficulty understanding the .mod-file format. It is handy to create small files for floorplans etc, but seems to have some inconsistencies I can't wrap my head around.

For instance, the layer list seem to be connected somehow to previous files opened, with it showing a different layer list at different times, which makes modelling in the file difficult if it suddenly shows a similar but different layer list from some old template file. The same with model view options, layer combinations etc.

Also sometimes it loads libraries, and sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes the archicad standard library and sometimes project specific ones.

Is it all random or is there a thought and process behind it? I understand the point of not keeping libraries, layer lists etc in the file to save space and complexity but it would be useful to fully understand how it works, and I find the documentation on this very lacking.

Re: Library and layer management with .mod-files

Barry Kelly — Wed, 27 Mar 2019 00:58:07 GMT

Whether it is a MOD file, or you are hotlinking a PLN or simply copying and pasting from one file to another, you will have problems if you do not have the same attributes in each file.
If the attributes are not the same in all files, then as you import the model you will also be bringing in those different attributes.
And beware - attributes could have the same name in different files, but if they have different index numbers they will be treated as different attributes when you hotlink or copy& paste.

A MOD file simply reduces the number of attributes by only containing the ones that are actually used in the model - unused attributes are not saved in a MOD file.

The only way to avoid this is to ensure all of your files are created from a 'master' file or template so they all share the same attributes.
When ever you create a new layer, surface, fill, etc., in any file you must be sure to use the Attribute Manager to transfer it to your master file - or create it first in the master file and then use Attribute Manager to transfer to the job files.
This way you can ensure all attributes have the same index number in all files so they will match.

Basically you must keep the attributes in all files the same if you want them to interact with each other.

Libraries are not saved in MOD files (or PLNs).
You control those with the Library manager in the master file.

Barry.

Re: Library and layer management with .mod-files

PVBergkrantz — Wed, 27 Mar 2019 10:33:37 GMT

Yes I am aware of that and the importance of keeping attributes synchronized, but when I open a .mod-file it loads a bunch of attributes not used by the file itself, and I am not sure from where it loads it. It could be from the last opened file, or from a currently opened file or some other hidden mechanic.

We keep attributes synchronized for the files within projects, but it does not always align cleanly with every single file we use, some projects being several years old. But the .mod-files seem to load attributes and sometimes (not reproducable but I'm sure it has happened) even libraries. And it is this mechanic specifically for .mod-files I am interested in.

If I open a .mod-file it will have a layer list and surfaces and stuff, but what determines where these come from?

Re: Library and layer management with .mod-files

Barry Kelly — Thu, 28 Mar 2019 02:07:39 GMT

This is interesting.
I was of the belief that a MOD file contains only the attributes it uses.
But when I save a PLN as a MOD or save a selection as a MOD and then open it, I get ALL of the attributes that were used in the last opened file.

I am sure this was not the case some time ago when I last really used MODs (I don't use them often).
I will check out some of my old files when I get a chance.

Barry.

Re: Library and layer management with .mod-files

Barry Kelly — Thu, 28 Mar 2019 02:41:55 GMT

On very quick further investigation, it seems that when you hotlink in or merge a MOD file, then only those attribute used are added to the host file.
However, when you open a MOD file, you will see all of the attributes of you last opened file as well as those of the MOD.

I think this can be a bit confusing should you ever need to edit the MOD file and you use files that have different attributes (although ideally you shouldn't).
To edit the MOD you will need to either open the template that is was created from first and then open the MOD or merge the MOD into that template, or you could start using attributes that were not meant to be used.

I am glad I don't use MODs very often and I am especially glad all my template and all of my files all use the same attributes.

Barry.

Re: Library and layer management with .mod-files

PVBergkrantz — Thu, 28 Mar 2019 08:47:24 GMT

Barry wrote:
I am glad I don't use MODs very often and I am especially glad all my template and all of my files all use the same attributes.

Haha yeah no kidding, I wish I was in your position, maybe in the future. This "feature" turns me away from using mods as well, and if this is truly how it works I'll stick to .pln-files only in the future. Seems a bit overlooked honestly.

Re: Library and layer management with .mod-files

Barry Kelly — Thu, 28 Mar 2019 08:53:13 GMT

You will probably have the same trouble with PLN files as well if your attributes don't match.
Copy & paste from one file to another will also create any non-existing attributes.

Barry.

Re: Library and layer management with .mod-files

Erwin Edel — Thu, 28 Mar 2019 14:02:15 GMT

I can strongly recommend saving modules from your master file from a designated 'workspace'.

This keeps attribute / library management simple: you are only using one file.

This keeps editing simple: you can edit what is in the 'workspace' and save it again, overwriting the old module.

To deal with quantity take off you can work with renovation filters. The way we've set things up is as follows:
- we have special view map folder for the module workspace, with special layer combination in place. We also have the module workspace renovation filter set for this clone folder of the floorplan
- we have our modules spaced out evenly, marked by a polyline and in text written below the module file name
- when editing a module, we 'unpin' the elements from the module workspace renovation filter
- when done editing, draw a marquee around the element (or use magic wand on the polyline) and save the module, overwriting the old file
- when done saving ' re-pin' the elements to the module worksapce renovation filter

Also set up some layers only visible for the module workspace for text and linework for clarification.

An alternative we used in the past was having seperate stories for modules that we save using publisher, but you end up having a lot of stories in your model.

Re: Library and layer management with .mod-files

PVBergkrantz — Thu, 28 Mar 2019 14:58:49 GMT

Barry wrote:
You will probably have the same trouble with PLN files as well if your attributes don't match.
Copy & paste from one file to another will also create any non-existing attributes.

Barry.

Sure the best practice is of course to keep attributes consistent across all files, but working with PLN-files I can at least be sure the attributes in the file are the ones that were there when it was created, and that should match the other files in this project. Working with .mod-files I might open an older project, then a .mod-file and get all those old attributes, and then the next time get another set of them!

Using .pln-files only there is at least some level of compartmentalization.

I'll have to try your method sometime Erwin, it seems a bit too complex to work in the environment I'm in but might be worth a shot for larger projects. It's sort of an inbetween of using .pln-files and .mod-files, I like it. This is probably the way they're meant to be used, while I've been trying to model inside the .mod-file.

But I don't quite understand the bit about "quantity take off" and the renovation filters?

Re: Library and layer management with .mod-files

Lingwisyer — Fri, 29 Mar 2019 01:30:44 GMT

I model multiple repeatable room types in a pln then save those out as mod files to import into a building or site file. I try to avoid needing to modify mod files in themselves unless they are really simple. If need be, you can always isolate and explode out a module, make some changes, then save and replace it as a mod again.

PVBergkrantz wrote:
But I don't quite understand the bit about "quantity take off" and the renovation filters?

The use of renovation filters is to hide reference modules within your model and not include them within your quantity take offs. Otherwise, say you have 5 units modelled as a repeated module, you would get the material take off for 6 units instead of the desired 5 as the reference is also included.

Ling.

Re: Library and layer management with .mod-files

PVBergkrantz — Fri, 29 Mar 2019 10:09:00 GMT

Oh I see. That makes a lot of sense.

Re: Library and layer management with .mod-files

Erwin Edel — Fri, 29 Mar 2019 13:54:58 GMT

Once we have something that repeats and should be a module, we just drag a copy of those elements to the side and designate that area of the project as the module workspace (it helps if you keep this at a fixed easy distance like 20,000 mm or such, depending on the size of the building).

If you want to hide those elements, you can duplicate one of the renovation filters (I'd recommend the 'new' filter) and rename that to something like 'modules'. Just select the elements and pin them to this filter.

The rest of the procedure I've described above.

It's not as complicated as it sounds.

Just draw marquee around the elements and save as module (just make sure you've 'unpinned' them when saving).

I find editing files in a seperate session with no direct relation to you model to be more complicated.

Re: Library and layer management with .mod-files

Marc H — Thu, 04 Apr 2019 05:45:36 GMT

Would there be any value (if working with older plan files as I was considering as well) to first save them out as .pla files and then either link those or then create a .mod file? It seems it would not solve the mismatch in attributes as completely as the 'Erwin model', but might help in utilizing legacy files?

Re: Library and layer management with .mod-files

Erwin Edel — Thu, 04 Apr 2019 06:50:58 GMT

A .PLA file can serve as a library for objects, but so can a folder on your server. The attributes are not loaded from library, but are part of the file. A module file by itself can't contain attributes, it will just open with whatever attributes were there from the previous session.

The workaround we used to have was: open your project, open it again 'read only', close that read only project (don't quit ArchiCAD, just close the project), open the module file in that session of archicad. This should give you the correct libraries and attributes.

For some strange reason (at least to me) a module file CAN contain embedded library parts which can lead to a lot of duplicates in your main file embedded library. For this reason we don't used the embedded library, just project libraries and office libraries loaded from our server along with the ArchiCAD libraries loaded from the ArchiCAD system folder.

Re: Library and layer management with .mod-files

Marc H — Thu, 04 Apr 2019 18:25:45 GMT

Thank you, Erwin, very valuable information!

Though the Embedded library has its convenience, increasingly it seems having a server configuration yields more consistency.

I also plan to use your approach of generating mod files from one master file. Very helpful. Thanks again.