topic Re: Dimension settings in Views in Documentation

Dimension settings in Views

Anonymous — Tue, 30 May 2023 13:18:21 GMT

I am "converting" from Microstation to Archicad, and have a few question.
First of all it's about dimensioning.

As I have understood - when I create a view (of a floor) and open it in the Project view map, the view is suppose to store/save all the settings within that view. I create a view, set the scale and adjust the dimension settings (font size etc) to suite the scale.
Then I open my drawing in Project map, change the scale and also the dimension settings (font size etc).
After that I double-click the view I created earlier and what happens? The dimension settings within the view is NOT what I had when I saved the view, but the setting from where I came (from the Project map). The result is that the dimension (text font) is either HUGE or tiny small.....

What is happening here, this isn't what I am accustomed from when working within Microstation, where the dimension text font is always the same size no matter what scale I am using (in layouts).

Can someone explain to me that this is the case, and if so, what a "mess" it all will be if I am working on different scale at the same time.

Re: Dimension settings in Views

Djordje — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 17:33:32 GMT

The dimension text size should always be the same, PRINTED, regardless of the scale.

That means that it is smaller or bigger in relation to the model, again relative to the scale.

So, when you set the dim text to 2.5mm, it will ALWAYS be 2.5mm, at 1:50 or 1:500 - and of course at 1:500 it will be huge relative to the model.

So don't bother changing the dimension text size - it does that all by itself. Change the output size.

The same goes for the text.

There is also a switch for this, but I would advise you to get accustomed to the default way - one thing less to think about.

Re: Dimension settings in Views

Anonymous — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 17:58:37 GMT

Oh, where is "There is also a switch for this"?

The text tool is scaleable throughout all the scales using the "Scale with plan (Model Size)" - also the Zone Tool has a setting that make the text the same whatever scale I draw or print in, but this is NOT the case with dimensions (and ALSO the sections tool.....).

Re: Dimension settings in Views

Djordje — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 18:01:08 GMT

geircito wrote:
Oh, where is "There is also a switch for this"?

The text tool is scaleable throughout all the scales using the "Scale with plan (Model Size)" - also the Zone Tool has a setting that make the text the same whatever scale I draw or print in, but this is NOT the case with dimensions (and ALSO the sections tool.....).

It should be the case by default.

The text should NOT stay the same relative to the plan, it should get larger or smaller. As well as the text, and the Zone text. Then it is the same printed size.

Re: Dimension settings in Views

Anonymous — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 18:24:19 GMT

Printet in scale 1:1

Same printed in scale 1:100 (the dimension text is HUGE and the drawing is a tiny spot down to the right):

Here I have zoomed into the drawing in scale 1:100 (same as above) and the zone and text is the same size as in the 1:1 print:

Re: Dimension settings in Views

Anonymous — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 19:33:41 GMT

So, is it supposed to be like I show in the pictures in my earlier post above?

Re: Dimension settings in Views

Anonymous — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 21:28:48 GMT

Djordje wrote:
There is also a switch for this...

So I ask again, where is the switch in the dimension tool that I search for?
Or is it "impossible"?

Re: Dimension settings in Views

Anonymous — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 21:33:02 GMT

geircito wrote:
So, is it supposed to be like I show in the pictures in my earlier post above?

No it isn't!

The attached image shows how dimensions, zone stamps, text (scaled with plan), and text (scale independent) display at different scales on a layout.

As Djordje says, generally keep text as scale independent, as other annotation behaves the in the same way, and all will rescale nicely when you change the viewing scale. The switch for this is in the text tool settings box only. (circled in red, below).

As a quick test, without zooming in or out, try changing the plan to various scales using the quick options tool bar. This will temporarily change the scale so you can see the effect on the text, without worrying about views and viewpoints.

(By the way, to change the scale of a view, you have to adjust it in the views settings i.e. right click on the particular view in the navigator, go to 'view settings', and change there. This could be part of your original problem.)

And in reply to the later question, no there isn't a switch in the dimension tool.

Re: Dimension settings in Views

Anonymous — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 22:01:33 GMT

Ok, I start in 1:50.
In Text tool I set the font hight to 5mm and choose "Scale independent (Paper Size)"
In Dimension tool I also set the font hight to 5mm.
Then I place some elements/text/dimensions.

This is how it looks in scale 1:50

This is how it looks in scale 1:100

This is how it looks in scale 1:200

See my "problem"?...

Re: Dimension settings in Views

Anonymous — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 22:23:19 GMT

Yes, that is the expected behavior. When you place these on a layout, whatever the scale of the plans, the dimensions will always be 5mm high and perfectly legible.

Having them fixed in size would be fine at one particular scale, but they would appear too large at another scale and unreadably small on another, which is not what you want!

A workaround is to adjust the drawing scale of the actual drawing on the layout itself. Right click on a placed drawing and select 'Drawing Settings'. There you can override the scale (rather like scaling a paper plan on a photocopier, but more exact!)

How is it accomplished in Microstation? Can you show us an example of what you are trying to achieve?

Re: Dimension settings in Views

Anonymous — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 22:50:59 GMT

After re-reading, I think I understand you better. Your problem is that at say 1:200 and above the dimensions are too large in comparison to the building, but you would still like to see them on plan (even though they may be unreadable when printed).

The way to get around that is to place the dimensions on a scale specific layer that gets turned off at larger scales. You can then add the simplified dimensions (I assume you'd prefer to not see every dimension) on to another layer. They will still remain associative to the wall regardless.

I hope that's a better solution for you! (Sorry for being so thick! )

Re: Dimension settings in Views

Anonymous — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 22:51:24 GMT

In Microstation I ALWAYS draw in scale 1:1.

Then I place my drawing in layouts, and this is the result:
(the text is in norwegian and "Soverom" means "Bedroom")

Layout with scale 1:50:

Layout with scale 1:100:

Layout with scale 1:200:

As you see, the text and dimension lines and text is exactly the same size no matter the scale I make the layout with (and later print).

Re: Dimension settings in Views

Anonymous — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 23:27:29 GMT

geircito wrote:
In Microstation I ALWAYS draw in scale 1:1

I guess this where we are having problems! In ArchiCAD you are always drawing full size, but text, linetypes, hatches, dimensions, labels, doors and windows are all sensitive to the specific outputting scale, and will adapt themselves accordingly.

What advantages does working with text at 1:1 actually give you? What happens if you have some text that displays fine at 1:100, but when you create a room layout at 1:20 surely the text would appear enormous! Do you deal with it with different sized text on different layers perhaps?

Generally our office standard is that all room names are 6mm in height when printed regardless of the scale (1:20 - 1:100) These are then turned off at 1:200 where they would become larger than the room. The standard for dim text is 3mm, regardless. 3mm for room notes, regardless. and so on. This is so any plan appears consistently and uniformly annotated when compared to any other plan in the drawing set.

If on the rare occasion we want to force the plan to appear at a larger / smaller scale, but not change the font display size we adjust the placed drawing settings as I described previously.

Try working with the new behaviour for a while, you might like it!

Good luck!

Re: Dimension settings in Views

Anonymous — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 23:35:47 GMT

Peter wrote:
What happens if you have some text that displays fine at 1:100, but when you create a room layout at 1:20 surely the text would appear enormous!

No, the text size, dimension lines & dimension text stays exactly the same, both on 1:100 and 1:20, and both displays very very fine, both onscreen and when printed (se my pictures from Microstation in my earlier post).

(and thanks alot for helping me - but I haven't "got" the solution yet...)

Re: Dimension settings in Views

Anonymous — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 23:45:00 GMT

I thought that working using Archicad you work with a plan in Project Map, then in View Map you make som views with different scales for putting on a layout. That would be very well IF the tool settings would "stick" to the view created in the View Map (from the Project Map), BUT the tool settings I put "into" the views in View Map doesn't "stick". The scale "sticks", but NOT per example the font size in dimensions.

Re: Dimension settings in Views

Djordje — Wed, 22 Oct 2008 02:29:56 GMT

geircito wrote:
Djordje wrote:
There is also a switch for this...
So I ask again, where is the switch in the dimension tool that I search for?
Or is it "impossible"?

The dimensions don't have that switch - I meant the text, and the zones, as you already found out.

What is the text height for your dimensions? 5 is big; usually they should be 2 or 2.5 mm. That is traditionally the best balance between the readability and the space they take.

What you set for the text is what is confusing you - it scales with the plan, instead of being the same PRINTED - or, to be precise, OUTPUT size for all the scales, as the dimensions are.

Usually, as Peter said, you should have a separate layer for the dimensions showing - and necessary - for the scales of 1:100 and larger (1:50 etc). You don't want the 1:200 and smaller plans cluttered with many dimension lines.

HTH,