topic Re: Minimum Parameters in Documentation

Minimum Parameters

Anonymous — Wed, 31 May 2023 08:18:20 GMT

Is there a place where I can find the Minimum Parameters for an element in the SE 9 Library. It is annoying to me that the parameters used will not meet the "VALID PARAMETERS." I have been trying for a couple of hours to fit a fireplace in the hole it was designated to go in by the manufacturer. I could not get it to fit because of "INVALID PARAMETERS." The feature that tells when it is invalid is good SOMETIMES. But I was pulling the dimensions right off the paperwork from the manufacturer and it was still invalid even though they build them and install them everyday. It now fits and I am greatly relieved and I appreciate the ability to vent on others that can tell me how stupid I am by giving me the answer to my problem but sometimes i guess we all are. Anyway, if there is somewhere i could get a list if these parameters i would greatly appreciate it. Thanx guys. You have relieved my stress and didn't even know it.

Re: Minimum Parameters

Anonymous — Tue, 21 Feb 2006 19:55:22 GMT

This just in: I figured this one out just a few hours ago while tinkering around with an elevator block. Apparetnly the "easy" way to do this is to take a look at the GDL code. Somewhere in there they have the limits (usually) for some of these blocks. It's probably not the simple answer you were looking for, but it works.

And another observation: their limits don't always make sense. Not for the elevator, nor for the fireplace. Ran into the same issue with both blocks in the past, though I suppose I can understand the reasoning for the elevator block.

Re: Minimum Parameters

TomWaltz — Tue, 21 Feb 2006 20:03:21 GMT

Sometimes the developers are kind enough to provide a Values command in the code which gives you a fly-out with allowable values.

It's kind of rare, though 😞

Re: Minimum Parameters

Anonymous — Tue, 21 Feb 2006 20:29:12 GMT

Sergio wrote:
This just in: I figured this one out just a few hours ago while tinkering around with an elevator block. Apparetnly the "easy" way to do this is to take a look at the GDL code. Somewhere in there they have the limits (usually) for some of these blocks. It's probably not the simple answer you were looking for, but it works.

Are you talking about looking at the Script when you open the GDL object from the file?

And another observation: their limits don't always make sense. Not for the elevator, nor for the fireplace. Ran into the same issue with both blocks in the past, though I suppose I can understand the reasoning for the elevator block.

This is another thing that frustrates me. it is like one time it may work and the next it will not. i know this isn't true but there are way to many variables in some cases. Gosh...
Oh well. Thanx guys

Re: Minimum Parameters

Anonymous — Wed, 22 Feb 2006 18:07:01 GMT

jcude wrote:
Are you talking about looking at the Script when you open the GDL object from the file?

There's two ways to look at the script. The easiest/quickest is to just right-click on the object in Windows Explorer and select "Properties". The draw-back is that you can't really see all the parameters that make up the object, but at least it'll give you some idea.

To get the full picture though, open the object in AC and look at the code that way. This version works only if the code is not hidden. If it is hidden, maybe the solution would be a combination of both of them.

Re: Minimum Parameters

Anonymous — Wed, 22 Feb 2006 19:17:42 GMT

For me this is a problem. I am just now getting into the GDL Manual to start working to write new parts needed. So I really have no idea what I am looking at but I will give it a look see and if I have more questions I will Architalk about them. I appreciate the help.

Re: Minimum Parameters

Anonymous — Wed, 22 Feb 2006 22:07:16 GMT

JEREMY,
Something you might try.
If you open the object via file/gdl object/open object
you will see the parameter list for the object (including any invisible ones).
In the "Window" horizontal menu item you will see
the name of the library part that is presently open for editing
and a list of script windows including Master script, 3D script,
2D script, etc.
Open the 3D script window and then go to the edit menu
select "Find and Replace" and in the field labeled
"find which string" type in invalid parameters.
then hit the find button (not any other button).
In the 3D script the string (if it exists) will be highlighted.
The hole statement in which this string appears will say something like,

84: <- (some number followed by a colon)
Print invalid parameters

The important thing is the number followed by a colon.
If you go back to "find and replace" and type in
the "find which string" that number and hit find
it will highlight every occurrence of that string
(you may have to tell it to find backwards).
You will find that the complete statement that has this string
in it will read something like,

if something then (the number).
Sometimes it will say if something then goto (the number).

Notice what the statement means.
Usually, it will say that if a certain parameter value is less than some
quantity then go to the subroutine that says "print invalid parameters".

By tracking down each "if" statement that invokes the print subroutine
you can identify every parameter that has some limit written into
the code.

I hope this is intelligible.
Peter Devlin

Re: Minimum Parameters

Seiss Wagner — Thu, 23 Feb 2006 08:53:56 GMT

PETER -

I know nothing about GDL and I have often wondered why, when entering values in the parameter dialogs, why an error statement isn't generated as soon a value is entered that exceeds the limits of the script? Why does the script have to be run before the user is notified that he has committed an error?

Re: Minimum Parameters

Laszlo Nagy — Thu, 23 Feb 2006 10:59:21 GMT

Seiss wrote:
PETER -

I know nothing about GDL and I have often wondered why, when entering values in the parameter dialogs, why an error statement isn't generated as soon a value is entered that exceeds the limits of the script? Why does the script have to be run before the user is notified that he has committed an error?

Because there are default values for all parameters that you specify when creating the GDL Library Part.
If it does not work with those values, then you get an error message.
But it would have to check thousands of combinations (I guess) to know what are valid ranges for each parameter. An average Window/Door has over 100 parameters. How could it check all combinations?

Re: Minimum Parameters

Anonymous — Fri, 24 Feb 2006 19:55:33 GMT

Seiss,
I was thinking about your question and decided that,
in effect, there is a way to get the error to display as soon
as you enter an invalid value in the settings dialog without
having to go to the 3D widow or the section/elevation window
to find out if you have entered an invalid value.
In the settings dialog select the preview to be the 3D view.
Immediately after you enter an invalid value in a parameter,
you will get the error message because the 3D script
has to run to display the 3D preview.
This, of course, does not help in finding out what the "valid" values are.
Peter Devlin

Re: Minimum Parameters

Anonymous — Sun, 26 Feb 2006 08:58:16 GMT

Peter wrote:
Seiss,
I was thinking about your question and decided that,
in effect, there is a way to get the error to display as soon
as you enter an invalid value in the settings dialog without
having to go to the 3D widow or the section/elevation window
to find out if you have entered an invalid value.
In the settings dialog select the preview to be the 3D view.
Immediately after you enter an invalid value in a parameter,
you will get the error message because the 3D script
has to run to display the 3D preview.
This, of course, does not help in finding out what the "valid" values are.
Peter Devlin

In principle, the GDL script should be written so as to preclude any invalid values. Unfortunately this is not always easy to do.

The fundamental problem with GDL is that the complexity of the programming increases exponentially (hyperbolically? there are probably already some proofs about this) with the number of parameters and variations in the part's functions. That is to say it is much easier to code a specific window than a generic single casement, which is still easier than a generalized multi-unit, etc.

I have seen the greatest success in custom parts when the parameters are very limited (a trestle table for example) or the performance spec is very clearly and strictly defined (as in the case of office standard symbols). Unfortunately custom parts don't work so well for general release.

I've already gone on (and on) about the solutions for this so I won't belabor it here.

Re: Minimum Parameters

Anonymous — Mon, 27 Feb 2006 19:03:15 GMT

Seiss wrote:
PETER -

Why does the script have to be run before the user is notified that he has committed an error?

It is like trying to crank a car. You don't know it won't crank untill you have first turned the key.