topic Rennovation Filter - Overriding Demolition Elements to match Existing Elements, on an Existing Renno in Documentation

Rennovation Filter - Overriding Demolition Elements to match Existing Elements, on an Existing Renno

BYAArchitects — Thu, 06 Mar 2025 12:47:53 GMT

Hoping there is something I am missing, or that this can be something that gets resolved in an update or new version of ArchiCAD....

How we want things to look:

Existing (and elements that are yet to be demolished) Elements - Grey
Demolition Elements - Red
New Elements - Black ( or what ever we want them to look like)

The issue:
With the current set up/ the way the renovation filter is working, is the elements marked for demolition are not being overridden to match the existing elements (see images below, where the window, bed and walls are showing as black and grey.)

On the existing plan, the demolition elements are showing up incorrectly (see image below):

On the demolition plan, they're showing up correctly (see image below):

On the proposed plan, everything is showing up correctly:

What I don't want to have to do:

I am not interesting in manually overriding every demolition element to appear as grey (to match the existing renovation filter) as it is a waste of time, especially when projects are constantly changing.

I have explored having additional Graphic Override Combinations/ Rules, but even then they are limited when it comes to filtering with renovation elements. Additionally it wouldn't work having a Graphic Override Combination for Demolition/ Existing and New, as that would result in an insane amount of Graphic Override Combinations and we already have a lot....

Summary:
Do you have a way to get Demolition Elements to show up the same as Existing Elements on an Existing Plan, then have the Demolition Elements show up different to the Existing Elements on a Demolition Plan?

Re: Rennovation Filter - Overriding Demolition Elements to match Existing Elements, on an Existing R

Barry Kelly — Thu, 06 Mar 2025 01:17:06 GMT

On the existing plan, you would not want to override the 'existing' elements - you want to 'show' the existing elements.

If you really want 'override' the existing elements and you want the demolished to match, then you want the 'to be demolished' to be overridden as well.

Problem then is the existing override is grey and the demolished override is red and dashed.

If you really do want to override the existing plan to grey, then in the filter show existing and demolished.

Then apply a graphic override that changes everything to grey.

The graphic override will override the renovation overrides.

Barry.

Re: Rennovation Filter - Overriding Demolition Elements to match Existing Elements, on an Existing R

BYAArchitects — Thu, 06 Mar 2025 02:40:56 GMT

This doesn't really resolve the issue.... As I've tried a different configuration of this 'non-solution'.

By leaving the existing elements as 'show' they appear as the predefined settings for element's line, fill and material. I would still have to manually go around and override each object and element to be 'existing grey', as well as the elements that are marked for demolition.

Ergo - more work that the current way it's set up.

As I'm not interested in selecting every existing and demolition object/ element, going to it's settings/ attributes for floor plan/ section displays, and changing every pen to 'existing grey'. Too much work, too higher chance of human error.

Re: Rennovation Filter - Overriding Demolition Elements to match Existing Elements, on an Existing R

Barry Kelly — Thu, 06 Mar 2025 02:58:25 GMT

What I was trying to say is, why do you want to override your existing elements on the existing plan?

If you are doing an 'existing' plan then logically that will consist of all existing elements and all to be demolished elements (because they have not yet been demolished).

Therefore you will want to 'Show' existing elements and also 'Show' to be demolished elements.

They will show as they are and will not be overridden - so they will look the same.

If you choose to use the reno filters to override the existing and also override the to be demolished, then they will be overridden with their respective settings (in your case grey and red).

You can not have the to be demolished override as grey for existing plans and red for to be demolished plans - they can only have one set of overrides.

The only way you can change that is to use a Graphic Override to override the renovation overrides.

Barry.

Re: Rennovation Filter - Overriding Demolition Elements to match Existing Elements, on an Existing R

Barry Kelly — Thu, 06 Mar 2025 03:06:48 GMT

Barry

Re: Rennovation Filter - Overriding Demolition Elements to match Existing Elements, on an Existing R

BYAArchitects — Thu, 06 Mar 2025 03:24:03 GMT

Yes,

I want the existing elements and the demolition elements 'existing grey' on the Existing Conditions Plans,
Then as you progress through to the Demolition Plans, the demolition elements are 'demolition red' and the existing elements are 'existing grey',
Then as you progress to Construction, Schematic, or Architectural Plans, the existing elements are 'existing grey' and the new elements are 'black/ what ever we want'.

In regards to your suggestion of marking the existing and demolition elements as 'show' on the renovation filter options, it will show them up as the same, but not grey.
To me, this then provides two logical solutions,

A Graphic Override Combination with a rule to make everything that isn't new construction 'existing grey'. However, as previously stated (by yourself) these overrides override the renovation filter, (then highlighted by myself) which means for every single one of our 16 Graphic Override Combinations, we'd have to have one for existing, one for demolition, and one for new. Which, honestly the sound of setting up 48 + Combinations, and using that system, sounds horrendous.
or selecting every single existing and demolition element/ object, and manually making it show up grey. Which is what we're already having to do with the current set up, but now includes all of the elements that are existing. Also something we're not interested in doing, as it also means you're sometimes having to go into materials, surfaces and wall profiles to change pens. As a majority of our projects are medium to large scale commercial renovations,

What I want is a magic third solution that I'm not aware of...

Thanks

Re: Rennovation Filter - Overriding Demolition Elements to match Existing Elements, on an Existing R

Barry Kelly — Thu, 06 Mar 2025 03:55:44 GMT

@BYAArchitects wrote:

Yes,

I want the existing elements and the demolition elements 'existing grey' on the Existing Conditions Plans,

But why?

You are showing what is existing and nothing else - you are not showing any new or to be demolished elements.

Why would you want to make it grey?

The existing is what you want to see in an existing plan, so 'show' it as it is.

In a demolition or proposed plan sure, you will want to override it as it is no longer the focus of the plan.

In my example before, the existing could be grey for the demolition plan as in your example, again the existing is no longer the focus.

But I still think for the existing plan, you want to 'show' bot the existing and to be demolished.

I see no reason to override any of it, as all you are showing is what is existing.

Barry.

Re: Rennovation Filter - Overriding Demolition Elements to match Existing Elements, on an Existing R

BYAArchitects — Thu, 06 Mar 2025 04:23:36 GMT

Because we want to.

Because we always have.

and Because it works best for our clients, consultants, builders, and the local authorities we work with.

As I mentioned before, we regularly work on projects that include renovations and on large to medium scale buildings. Many of these particular projects contain multiple layers of wall profiles, systems, and or other unknown elements that we do not speculate the composition of because we simply do not know and or do not need to know. Having all existing elements as grey is done to make the proposed work more clear, and highlight it's importance, the grey is done to recede the less necessary information and provide context to the project and works done. This drafting system has been in place since before ArchiCAD was used in the office and is a system we will continue to use.

Re: Rennovation Filter - Overriding Demolition Elements to match Existing Elements, on an Existing R

Barry Kelly — Thu, 06 Mar 2025 05:16:23 GMT

@BYAArchitects wrote:

Because we want to.

That is a good enough reason.

Just apply a grey graphic override the the view for your existing plan.

The criteria can be for 'all types' or you can exclude text and dimensions, or be more specific if you want.

Renovation status will have nothing to do with it because you simply want to show everything in your existing plan as grey.

Other views where you want to show/override to existing demolished or new, you just use the renovation filters as you have them set and do not use the grey graphic override.

This is the same as I showed before but with a grey graphic override.

Barry.

Re: Rennovation Filter - Overriding Demolition Elements to match Existing Elements, on an Existing R

BYAArchitects — Thu, 06 Mar 2025 05:21:41 GMT

As previously stated, that won't work.

Re: Rennovation Filter - Overriding Demolition Elements to match Existing Elements, on an Existing R

Barry Kelly — Thu, 06 Mar 2025 06:31:49 GMT

@BYAArchitects wrote:

As previously stated, that won't work.

I just did it.

That graphic override only applies to your existing plan view.

So what ever GO combination you are using for that view, just add a rule to change everything you want to grey.

If you are using that same GO for other views as well, then yes, you may need to duplicate just that one GO combination and add the grey rule.

You can only use one GO combination per view, so the other GO combinations in other views should not be affected (unless I am missing something, and that is entirely possible).

Although I would still make things easy for yourself.

When showing just the existing plan, don't override anything.

Barry.

Re: Rennovation Filter - Overriding Demolition Elements to match Existing Elements, on an Existing R

Lingwisyer — Thu, 06 Mar 2025 08:05:07 GMT

Do you have multiple different Demolition plans that use different GOs? What is the issue with adding a rule to all of your GOs that makes non-new cut elements a solid grey? Excluding your Demolition plans which would have to override using their own GOs, all of your others would be unaffected?

Ling.

Re: Rennovation Filter - Overriding Demolition Elements to match Existing Elements, on an Existing R

BYAArchitects — Fri, 14 Mar 2025 17:15:06 GMT

This is the number of Graphic Override Combinations we have in our Template File (please see attached image below). The number to the side aligning with the appropriate Model View Options we also have pre-saved...

As I've said before, we have a decent number of pre-defined, ~~Model View Combinations~~ Graphic Overrides Combinations, and it is not practical and user friendly for the way our office operates to have each of these as duplicates for existing and new and or demolition. If there is a specific rule that would work across all bases, being everything shows up correctly when on an existing, demolition and new, view. Then we're back in business... Otherwise, the option your proposing doesn't work, we have tried it.

Re: Rennovation Filter - Overriding Demolition Elements to match Existing Elements, on an Existing R

Barry Kelly — Tue, 11 Mar 2025 06:35:46 GMT

Model View Options have nothing to do with renovations.

All you need to do is create a new graphic override rule for 'Existing - Grey' and add that rule to a new '18 Existing - grey' graphic override combination.

If you need plans that use the other graphic override combinations to also show grey existing, then add that rule to those GO combinations (schemes) as well.

The renovation filter you use (as well as the GO and MVO) is stored in the 'View Settings' of a particular view.

So you would create a view for your 'Existing Plan' and then set the MVO, existing renovation filter and the grey existing graphic override (or other override) that you want to use for that view.

Or maybe we are tackling the renovation plans from 2 totally different points of view.

To me you simply have a plan.

Set the MVO to show what you want to see.

Set the renovation filter you want to use and the graphic override as well as the layer combination,scale, pen set, etc., and save that as a view.

Change the settings to something else you want to see and save that as a new view.

Save as many views as you need for all the various plans you want to see.

Barry.