topic Re: Next phase of subscription transition announced in General discussions

Next phase of subscription transition announced

Richard Doll — Mon, 30 Sep 2024 19:49:12 GMT

Dear Community Members,

Following my recent Graphisoft Insights post on the Subscription transition update, we know how important this topic is for you as our clients and anticipate your comments and questions. To streamline communication, we’ve created this thread to gather everything in one place. We’ll also use it to identify topics that may need further clarification, which we’ll address on our FAQ page.

Please note that while we cannot respond to individual questions in the forum, your local representative is available for personalized support.

Best regards,
Richard

Link to Insights article: https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Graphisoft-Insights/Important-update-Next-phase-of-subscription-transition-announced/ba-p/633342

Re: Next phase of subscription transition announced

StefanV_BCP — Mon, 30 Sep 2024 18:43:46 GMT

So much conflicting emotions about this.

One thing is for sure - I don't like this, because you are changing the dynamic between customers and the company.

Before, we had some mutual agreement, partnership if you will. Now I feel that you treat us simply like an ATM, which is ok if you are ready to take an extreme heat from the users.

The room for mistakes, and justification why something is not working or its missing will be almost none since is only fair that we demand the tool for our money worth.

Personally i believe that you should leave the choice to the user Perpetual+ SSA, or Subscription.

Cheers,

Stefan

Re: Next phase of subscription transition announced

Florin Luca — Tue, 01 Oct 2024 00:41:53 GMT

I have to say that I agree with most of what you said, except for the “taking the heat” part. They don’t care and we are not organized enough to take them on. Please forgive me if I am too jaded, and definitely don’t intend any offense to you Stefan, but how on earth are we going to make them feel the heat?

I have one issue: I find the proposed subscription model appalling. Why? Because if I stop paying I have no software and I have no way to use my files, and ultimately I have no business. I resent becoming an indentured servant! That’s just me, I don’t know, maybe I’m wrong. /s

I have a small residential firm, and if this is what it takes, I will go back to hand drawing. I don’t have that many years left anyway. But all the people coming after me, better consider this seriously. Varoufakis was right when he said we are in an era of techno-feudalism. And we all know how much fun the original feudal system was!

Before any of you jump on me, defending this great GS proposal, I would like to add that when the news about switching to a subscription model came out a few months back, the perpetual license holders were assured by the company, and by some moderators, that we are fine. That we get to keep our original agreement, we have nothing to worry, nothing will change.

Well, it doesn’t look that way, now does it? And no, I’m not that naive, I was sure they will find a way to nail us, but it feels good to point it out.

That being said, I actually have no problem paying a monthly fee — after all, under my SSA/Forward agreement, I pay $1,000+ per year to get new releases, which is another form of subscription. The difference being that I get to keep the software if I stop paying!

Why can’t we have a subscription model, albeit at a higher price then the current SSA, that allows us to keep the software when we stop paying?

Structure it such that it can only take effect after a set amount of time to avoid gaming the system (paying one month or so and then stopping).

Too simple a solution to consider? Thoughts?

Re: Next phase of subscription transition announced

Barry Kelly — Tue, 01 Oct 2024 01:44:54 GMT

I feel really bad about this decision to end SSA/Forward subscription.

Because I was saying at every opportunity, “don’t worry, you are not being forced into the subscription, you can carry on with SSA/Forward”.

Seems that this is no longer the case.

Graphisoft have changed their mind, which of course is their right to do.

Whether this works out good or bad for them I don’t know, I just hope they have done their research.

So now we have a perpetual license available only until end of 2026 (version 30).

After that, subscription only.

For the company I work for, after the discounted swap over to subscription (if we choose to go that path), we will be paying approximately 5 times the amount in subscription (we have yet to see if there will be any negotiating of this with our distributor) as we do now for our SSA.

So paying 5 times as much to run software that we have already paid for up front – I am not sure that is going to happen.

And that is for each license that we have.

Then comes the issue, if we switch to the discounted 3+3 year subscription, then at some point in the future we decide to cancel (so say in 6 years at version 34 or what ever it is then), we wont be left with version 34, but only 30 instead.

Or maybe it will be 29, as that is the version we would be on when we start the subscription (FAQ says this is what we will fall back to?)

Either way, at best we will be left with version 30 after working for years on projects up to version 34 or so.

If we cancel the subscription, we can’t save back to 30, because we no longer have access to the newer versions to save back.

Pending negotiations with our distributor, my recommendations to my company will be to renew our subscription this year and again at the end of 2025.

This will take us to the end of 2026 (version 30) which will be the last perpetual license upgrade.

Then I recommend that we don’t switch to the subscription (that will be too expensive anyway), and we carry on using version 30 into the future and Graphisoft will be getting no payments what so ever.

I would much rather that we carry on paying our SSA support and upgrading year on year, but it seems Graphisoft do not want this.

As I said, we are yet to talk with our distributor to negotiate any deals, if that is possible.

I recommend everyone else to talk with their distributors as well to figure out what is the best option for them.

Maybe Graphisoft have factored in that they will lose some old customers like us, but with subscriptions at approx 5 times the cost of SSA/Forward support, they will make up for it.

Again, that is their decision.

I just feel let down as a long time customer (since version 6.5), paying up front for the software (100+ licenses over the years) and support fees every year.

I really hope Graphisoft is listening and might reconsider cancelling SSA/Forward support, but I am not holding my breath.

Barry.

Re: Next phase of subscription transition announced

mthd — Tue, 01 Oct 2024 04:00:37 GMT

Uh Oh ! Not a happy announcement but I saw it coming from a representative who gave me a little hint a couple years back that SSA/FW was likely to be replaced by a subscription only going forward. This announcement just confirms it. Let’s put this straight, AC is not perpetual, that is not the correct terminology because it does have an eventual end.

Well it’s a more open playing field now and we will just use what we have or find something else that is truly perpetual ? I cant see how this move is in the interests of AC/GS but it certainly is for Nemetschek who have other CAD packages available in their stable.

I can’t go back to a drawing board because that is not feasible for me. I can however keep my options open and repay this company by not using any other of its other CAD packages. I am only a customer of truly perpetual software from now on.

The future of Archicad and any other CAD products that are subscription only, is greater competition. It will force all these CAD products to improve or be the best in the business or you will not get hired.

Welcome to real the world of competition for business !

Re: Next phase of subscription transition announced

jl_lt — Mon, 08 Sep 2025 05:58:23 GMT

We know your intentions were good Barry, but no one believed for one second Graphisoft would do the right thing.

Why would they?? they either invest to offer a better product and maybe then go into suscription, OR they dont invest a single dime and keep their faulty product as it is (which is forgivable within the context of the current perpetual model, but inexcusable under a subscription model) and they just milk us as long as they can before AI takes over architectural practices.

This is a big nice middle finger to all of us.

If they couldnt keep their word on this, who can expect they will actually offer a better product just because they got a little bit more cash (a positive flow that will last for 3 years at best if they keep going down the path theyve chosen). Having more cash doesnt mean youll offer a better product; youll just have more cash.

Re: Next phase of subscription transition announced

Koji — Tue, 01 Oct 2024 07:39:03 GMT

I think moving solely to a subscription model is a very bad decision, the perpetual license option should remain.

If version 2026 is the last version with perpetual license, that will be my last version of Archicad. Afterwards and when it runs out of support I will explore other options more extended in the BIM field.

If you really want to satisfy users, the subscription option, which is valid for many, should coexist with the perpetual license option that until now distinguished Archicad from other software on the market and now makes it one more.

If there is not the loyalty that a perpetual license implies, there is nothing to stop you from leaving Graphisoft's platform and jumping to the competition.

Hopefully Graphisoft will reconsider this decision that is focused solely on pleasing investors and shareholders, subscription models are a problem that has spread to all platforms in all markets.

Re: Next phase of subscription transition announced

Jp1138 — Tue, 01 Oct 2024 09:38:24 GMT

Surprise, no surprise 😅😅

The very big problem with SAAS shows its ugly head here: you are at the expense of a company having a change of mind and all your bussiness is left on the air. After repeately telling SSA would continue on, now they tell us that no, that that was only a joke.

Ok. I supposse we will stick with Archicad 30 until we transition to something else. Bonsai Blender or Rhino seem better options right now. Even Cype Architecture, while not very pretty, is an option now, being free and integrated with their other apps.

Many of not so old Archicad users came here because they wouldn´t use a SAAS as Revit, and stayed because the software was good. Now the search for other software that began when the transition was first announced must intensify, as they aren´t able even to keep their word from some months ago 😥 No way we can trust them not to make a misuse of this new model where every user will even more be tied to their not so stable plans.

Re: Next phase of subscription transition announced

Ransom Ratcliff — Tue, 01 Oct 2024 20:28:29 GMT

Ending the perpetual license option removes a priceless quality of ArchiCAD because we create our intellectual property in this format, which is inaccessible without this tool. This intellectual property can represent many years of great effort and personal human inspiration.

Note that the operative words here are, "our intellectual property." And it is unlike a car or apartment that we might buy, rent or sell.

As long as we own and control the key to the vault (PLN), we are willing to pour our heart and soul into this format. Even if we fall on hard times and lose our business, or Graphisoft goes out of business, at least we have some hope that we can still access our life's work and maybe even rebuild from the ashes.

ArchiCAD has continued to be the most elegant and powerful BIM authoring tool that money can buy.

But if a future version/format transforms me from an owner to a renter, I doubt I will be willing to put anything of serious value behind that kind of paywall. Even the Pay-Per-Use licensing that enabled me to afford switching to ArchiCAD in 1995, would not close the door on our intellectual property, if left unused for some time.

There is time in the coming year for Graphisoft to refine this proposed business model in a way that works better with the human factor and their customer base and the unique profession of Architecture. While we may not fairly understand the pressures on your side, Graphisoft's passion and talent over decades, has made customers into allies.

Let's keep it up. 🙂

Re: Next phase of subscription transition announced

mthd — Wed, 02 Oct 2024 02:23:11 GMT

Intellectual property can be covered by being able to export our models into the various file formats even if some data is lost in the translation process.

There can be collusion between Nemetschek and Autodesk who have the same subscription only policy goals for the future past 2026. I am not sure if that will apply to all of Nemetschek’s CAD packages ?

Legal implications can result from a transition like this by forcing perpetual license holders into a subscription only future. Why would you issue perpetual licenses till the end of 2025 and then at the end of 2026 render them void ? They are letting us hold an older version of Archicad as perpetual and that is as far as it goes for now.

I think that these companies should be under obligation to upgrade perpetual licensing indefinitely. Certainly because they are now requiring us to not let our payments stop so the license can continue to be upgraded.

I think we haven’t heard the end of this story and the treacherous dealings by these CAD companies. Government agencies can intervene and allow for fair trading to protect us customers of perpetual licensing.

Re: Next phase of subscription transition announced

Martin Jules — Wed, 02 Oct 2024 02:49:21 GMT

Time will tell whether you've made the best or worst decision on this!

Re: Next phase of subscription transition announced

MinhNguyen — Wed, 02 Oct 2024 09:17:09 GMT

I see this one coming, but didn't think it was this quick. And looks like AC29 or 30 would be the last that can run perpetual licenses? Why can't they just specify it so that we don't have to guess?

So GS is forcing people to subscription, and also shutdown BIMcloud paid version to replace it with BIMcloud Saas? Nothing has been said about its fate so far.

Reading through the FAQ, there is some conflicting information as well: in questions 10 and 11, there are 2 different answers for the same issue: fallback option - what exactly do we get here? So someone who made the conversion in 2024 can still run newer Archicad, but those who choose to convert in 2025 will have to stay with AC29/30?

Funny enough, in all announcements, GS keeps putting the responsibility to address these concerns onto local representatives and chose not to participate here directly, but like a week ago (or 2), our local representatives (both in Vietnam and Australia) still have no idea about all of these changes

Re: Next phase of subscription transition announced

mthd — Thu, 03 Oct 2024 01:19:18 GMT

Yes it would be good if they could exactly specify but probably will in time. They have said to the end of 2026 so that would include AC30.

Graphisoft can take the lead and make any necessary changes to continue offering perpetual licensing to their loyal customers as well as subscriptions if they really wanted to. Even if it meant the changing of the companies structure. After all, who really owns the intellectual property of the ArchiCAD coding ? Future AI could easily plagiarise any code and re-create a clone CAD system of any of the big CAD/BIM players.

Architects are fully aware of the plagiarising of their designs and after all you can copy a style but not and exact floor plan with copyright laws in our land at least.

Re: Next phase of subscription transition announced

furtonb — Wed, 02 Oct 2024 13:43:19 GMT

So you are telling me, that I'll be able to work on large teamwork projects with this move, without them crashing constantly... Right?

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Re: Next phase of subscription transition announced

Jp1138 — Wed, 02 Oct 2024 15:51:45 GMT

Re: Next phase of subscription transition announced

Eduardo Rolon — Wed, 02 Oct 2024 16:20:32 GMT

At this point AC30 is the final perpetual release.

Re: Next phase of subscription transition announced

thesleepofreason — Wed, 02 Oct 2024 17:11:23 GMT

Which could well be nothing much more than 28.2 if they decide to focus on subscription only cloud services. I don't think we should expect them to get things in order before they ride off into the sunset just for old time sakes. Just two more chances for GS to pull the football on us - good grief!

Re: Next phase of subscription transition announced

Kalib Stewart — Wed, 02 Oct 2024 22:31:57 GMT

Considering we just got Archicad 27.1 today, does that mean we'll only have access to Archicad 27.3 by 2026? Reckon you guys will have fixed that big selling point (worse than CI's one btw) half-baked keynotes feature by then? Nothing beats a single screen BIM software in 2024 either, I mean wow.

Guess a move to Revit was sadly inevitable; trying to price match the actual monopoly was beyond foolish.

Re: Next phase of subscription transition announced

Ransom Ratcliff — Wed, 02 Oct 2024 23:28:01 GMT

I can appreciate the tactic of lighting a fire under GS to do the right thing for all of us.

But honestly, a move to Revit would be jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire.

The difference is so astounding that I would take ArchiCAD 17 over Revit 2024, unless I had to work on a Revit project.

Indeed, if I didn't need to Teamwork between offices, I'd rather use ArchiCAD 9 SE than the current Revit BIM 360; especially if I needed to do a large project with a large team in the same office.

The one area where Revit has long crushed us in the North American market has been localization and libraries. But the workarounds we must implement are not nearly as painful as using Revit itself. (Keynotes has been one of those Revit features that still outshine us, btw. But we are closing the gap significantly, OTB with 28.)

Re: Next phase of subscription transition announced

Kalib Stewart — Thu, 03 Oct 2024 00:54:20 GMT

To each their own, but I can use either one competently so will just work with the best tool value wise at the time.

Add to the fact that Revit has a stronghold in Australia/NZ for the majority of larger practices + their construction cloud is an all in one solution + all of our consultants are on it and it would make coordination easier + a wider hiring pool for firms + more job opportunities for it as an employee; it's a no brainer to move.

The value for money is not even comparable either, and at least with Revit, I can anticipate an actual upgrade to a tool somewhere between releases. It may not be much, but it's a hell of a lot more than we got with archicad 28 - just sub-par keynotes and some more Graphisoft lies.