Apple switching to Intel..........Discuss

[rm]

This is going to hurt us at first on the Mac side. I hope in the long run, it means faster machines at lower prices with the rock solid stability of OS X.

http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/06/06/powerpcintel/index.php

...........discuss.

Oh, Windows people, try to contain the " I told you so comments " to a minimum

[Anonymous]

I hope this is a good thing as far as Graphisoft and ArchiCad are concerned! I also hope that Graphisoft has been expecting this. I really enjoy using OSX and ArchiCad. It would be good to hear a comment from Graphisoft of their thoughts.

I still prefer ArchiCad because of its flexibility regardless of the OS. I've used the other BIM program and it has some powerful features that I would like to see implemented in ArchiCad. Yet it doesn't top interactively working with the model to figure out, present and document the complexities of the design the way ArchiCad does. At the end of the day that is very important.

[Aaron Bourgoin]

What does this mean for us AMD users?

[__archiben]

rm wrote:
Oh, Windows people, try to contain the " I told you so comments " to a minimum

huh? as far as i'm concerned an apple is still an apple as long as it's running OSX. and OSX on faster chipsets: isn't it more beneficial for apple in long run? with three/four main operating systems all running on the same chip architecture doesn't it mean more consumer choice? maybe we'll be saying 'i told you so' as 'traditional pc' users gradually abandon windows in favour of a unix-flavoured system that works with their current hardware and software in the not-to-distant future?

maybe there will be a slight headache for developers throughout the transition period, but if, from then on, only one chip architecture has to be supported that's going to send microsoft running to the hills isn't it?

no?
~/archiben

[Aaron Bourgoin]

sorry,

i guess I should have actually read something about the announcement before asking my question.

dual core atholons running inside a mac box might have been nice though.

Aaron

[Gorazd]

I think that what makes Macs great machines is their OS, selection of best hardware and of course great design. This will still be Macs as we like them, only they will run faster. I for one would love to have 17" PowerMac with 3 GHz Pentium in it.

[__archiben]

Gorazd wrote:
I for one would love to have 17" PowerMac with 3 GHz Pentium in it.

quite! and if (as is true at the moment) archiCAD runs faster on pentium chips we should also feel the benefit of that without leaving the comfort of our cosy aesthetics and holier-than-thou attitudes

cheers
~/archiben

[James Murray]

Disordered thoughts.

• No user with their priorities straight should care who makes the chip. We don't use the processor, we use applications, which use the operating system, which uses the processor. Users don't use the processor any more than a bus driver uses the oil filter. What makes Macs nice is stability, reliability, ease of use, consistency of design, and tight integration of hardware and software. None of that is going away.

• Apple's market share could improve as consumers can make a (pardon me) apples-to-apples comparison between Macs and Winboxen. (I really like the term 'Wintellian' and I'm going to miss it.)

• The machines won't be cheaper. Mid-range Intel chips cost less, but at the high-end it's a wash. You need high end. Apple has never competed on price at the high end and they never will.

• PPC has been a colossal disappointment since the G5 was announced. The promised 3Ghz chip is a year late and counting. Worse, the last speed bump for PowerMacs (2.7Ghz) wasn't a faster processor, it was an overclocked identical processor to the previous gen 2.5Ghz, which was almost a year old itself. Meanwhile, a G5 PowerBook is a fantasy. Apple's entire pro line is stalled, hostage to an IBM chip tech with, empirically, no future. Something had to be done.

• That said, x86 hasn't exactly been pulling away. Stunted as G5 growth is, it improved more in percentage terms in the last 2 years than the P4. So hold down the told-you-so's. Clock speeds everywhere are leveling off. But GS says speed is speed and more is better, so I hope performance will improve.

• I thought Intel had lost a step and AMD was the cool kid. Having reached the limits of my 'knowledge', I'll stop there.

• The Apple brand is riding high and it's wise to leverage some of that goodwill to plan for the future. Especially when there's no choice.

• My PB is 27 months old. There's no point in buying another G4. I assume the PB will be among the first x86 machines next summer. At that point my PB will be 39 months, and if ArchiCAD isn't ready, I'll have to wait even longer. Awkward.

• I imagine there's some swearing in Budapest this week, but in the long run it must make things a little easier...? If there is major overhauling involved, can we get multi-processor support while you're in there?

• There's no way Apple will put that stupid sticker on their box.

300!

[Aussie John]

Yes I think it will be a little awkward for hi end products like ArchiCAD, Protools as I doubt the code changes will be that straight forward. I read this which is interesting

" Dashboard Widgets, scripts and Java code will require no work to run on Intel-based Macs, while Cocoa apps developed with Xcode will require a few days of porting work and must be recompiled to run. Carbon apps developed with Xcode will require a few weeks of work; apps developed with Metroworks CodeWarrior will need to be moved over to Xcode."

I dont know how Archicad is coded but am pretty certain it isnt Cocoa.
I suspect the last option but that is a guess. I hope GS doesnt decide to dump the Mac platform.

My understanding is, if the recompiled apps are written to "universal Binaries" then the old Powerbook G4s will still run any recompiled apps. and in any case will run in emulation. In emulation there is supposed a small drop in performance but that could easily be part of the RDF (reality distortion field) of Steve Jobs.

That said if it brings on faster computers then I am all for the change.

[Anonymous]

Unfortunately there just isn't enough information from Apple to know how this is going to work.

Which machines will see the first Intel chips? Powerbooks? Minis? These machines face the biggest cooling problems, which was one of the main reasons given by Steve jobs (Watts/performance), plus the G4 is closer to the end of it's life than the G5. (Or is it?)

It will also be interesting to hear from Graphisoft on how they code ArchiCAD. If they use XCode it won't be too bad, but if they decided to go after some of the processor specific features of the G4 & G5 (AltiVec and 64 bit) there may be some big problems ahead. The Apple/Intel roadmap makes no mention of 64 bit processing after years of Apple touting that as the great next step in computing.

Another unknown is if the new Intel based boxes will be able to boot Windows too, which might make all developers reconsider Mac versions entirely. Hopefully they are talking to the developers and letting them know a little more than the rest of us.