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Issues when reading material thickness from walls in Solibri

felcunha
Expert
Hello all,

I'm experiencing issues on reading the material thickness in Solibri, from .ifc models exported from Archicad 21.
When opened in Solibri, the thickness are shown as 0 if the model is exported as Extruded/revolved with jonctions.
If the model is exported without jonctions the thickness are shown correctly.
I've tested with IFC2x3 et IFC4.

In AC20 the model shows ok.
Felipe Ribeiro Cunha

AC 25, OS X Big Sur
12 REPLIES 12

felcunha
Expert
So I think no one has a solution...
Please could you guys from Graphisoft address it as a bug ?

Thank you,
Felipe Ribeiro Cunha

AC 25, OS X Big Sur

jameshart
Newcomer
I am having this problem today too, it is affecting nearly every exterior wall on the first floor (but not the floors above.)

The affected walls are often exactly the same composite as non-affected walls.

It is even affecting two adjacent walls that are exactly the same in ArchiCAD, but when viewed in Solibri the thicknesses are shown as 0.

Please see the attached screenshots. The IFC file shown in the attached screenshots was exported using the translator "Data Exchange with Revit Structure."
ArchiCAD 22 (6021 USA Full), 2.5 GHz Intel Xeon W iMac Pro, 64 GB RAM, MacOS 10.14, AMD Radeon Pro Vega 64

jameshart
Newcomer
Attachment #2
IFC-Problem-Screenshots_Page_2-web.jpg
ArchiCAD 22 (6021 USA Full), 2.5 GHz Intel Xeon W iMac Pro, 64 GB RAM, MacOS 10.14, AMD Radeon Pro Vega 64

jameshart
Newcomer
Attachment #3
IFC-Problem-Screenshots_Page_3-web.jpg
ArchiCAD 22 (6021 USA Full), 2.5 GHz Intel Xeon W iMac Pro, 64 GB RAM, MacOS 10.14, AMD Radeon Pro Vega 64

jameshart
Newcomer
Attachment #4
ArchiCAD 22 (6021 USA Full), 2.5 GHz Intel Xeon W iMac Pro, 64 GB RAM, MacOS 10.14, AMD Radeon Pro Vega 64

Daniel Kovacs
Graphisoft
Graphisoft
Hi,

It is a common issue with IFC export. The problem is that with the current IFC standards we can only export thickness for composites if we save the Walls as "ifcWallStandardCase". This Element type can't have any kind of special geometry (slanted, certain cut types, empty skin, etc.). This raises problems in many cases.

And this exact case is one of them. The wall that can display thicknesses properly only collides in the upper parts, and this is a kind of exception that the Element type can tolerate (it is an extruded shape). The one on the corner though, also collides with the wall that's perpendicular to is (since it is on a corner) and that combined with the upper cut results in a geometry that's not compliant with this standard, so it will not have thickness values (and if solibri can't find a value, it displays zero, which might be misleading).

We are working on improving this behavior in the next main version. Until then if having these values in each element is crucial, you can go with exporting without junctions.
Daniel Alexander Kovacs

Professional Services Consultant

GRAPHISOFT



For Troubleshooting and useful Tips & Tricks visit

jameshart
Newcomer
This is very helpful, thank you Daniel!

Sorry for the delay getting back to you, I was out at a conference last week, I thought I had sent this reply before I left!

The walls aren't slanted, and those particular walls don't have an airspace in the composite, so the problem is the SEO at the top of the wall?

And you said
"Until then if having these values in each element is crucial, you can go with exporting without junctions."
I'm not totally sure what this means, can you please elaborate? I've tried looking at this link, but it's a bit ambiguous. Does "without junctions" mean that all exported geometry is exported without it's SEO or Roof Trims?

Thanks again for all your help Daniel!
ArchiCAD 22 (6021 USA Full), 2.5 GHz Intel Xeon W iMac Pro, 64 GB RAM, MacOS 10.14, AMD Radeon Pro Vega 64

Laszlo Nagy
Community Admin
Community Admin
I think Daniel meant the following option in the Geometry Conversion Options Dialog of the IFC Translation Setup Dialog.
See it in attached image.

Also, the description of the field and its options is available on this page:

https://helpcenter.graphisoft.com/guides/archicad-20/archicad-20-reference-guide/interoperability/ar...
....................................................................................................
Laszlo Nagy, Lead Moderator, Community Admin
Get Archicad Tips at https://twitter.com/laszlonagy
AMD Ryzen 1700X CPU, 48 GB RAM, Nvidia GTX 1060 6GB, 500 GB NVMe SSD
2x28" (2560x1440), WIN10 PRO ENG, AC20-AC25
Loving Archicad since 1995

jameshart
Newcomer
Thanks Laszlo,

Yes, I understand that is the option Daniel is referring to, and that is the article that I read, but the term "junction" is hardly defined (which is why I am confused.) I'm just trying to understand the implications of going with "Extruded/Revolved Without Junctions" as Daniel suggested.

The article says "... without junctions – that is, without the priority-based intersections..." So it's talking about the priority-based intersections as described in this help center article?

Has anyone used this option with their structural engineer, and was the structural engineer ok with this?
ArchiCAD 22 (6021 USA Full), 2.5 GHz Intel Xeon W iMac Pro, 64 GB RAM, MacOS 10.14, AMD Radeon Pro Vega 64

Daniel Kovacs
Graphisoft
Graphisoft
Hello,

Sorry for the late reply, I did some tests.

In the first post in this thread, felcunha said that it works fine if he turns "without junctions" on. That is indeed true, because that means that Priority Based Connections will be removed, and each element will be exported plain and simple.

But in jameshart's case, it is indeed caused by the SEO on that wall (so just turning junctions off won't help, sorry I wasn't clear about this). There is an option above this one that is related to Solid Element Operations (and the one you linked the article about). This actually controls Solid Element Operations and cuts/trims as well. Here you have the option to export as BREP (for perfect representation) or extruded/revolved. Unfortunately because of some limitations of IFC, elements that have SEOs applied to them can't be exported as 'standardCase' Wall with either settings. The Reference guide (and the article you linked from it) is not really clear about this behavior, so I let the responsible person know, and we will try to correct this.

So, those walls will only go out as standard case wall (and thus having all the necessary skin thickness information) if you remove the SEOs prior to export.

I hope it is clearer now.
Daniel Alexander Kovacs

Professional Services Consultant

GRAPHISOFT



For Troubleshooting and useful Tips & Tricks visit

jameshart
Newcomer
Ok, that makes much more sense; thank you Daniel!
ArchiCAD 22 (6021 USA Full), 2.5 GHz Intel Xeon W iMac Pro, 64 GB RAM, MacOS 10.14, AMD Radeon Pro Vega 64

felcunha
Expert
Hello,
I've read the answers, I hope this will be addressed in the future !
But I've hotlinked the same ifc (generated by AC with extrusion with and without junctions) in AC21 and the walls are shown as building element proxies in the IFC manager... is that correct ?
(they're shown correctly in the walls options dialog...)
Felipe Ribeiro Cunha

AC 25, OS X Big Sur

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