Collaborate forum
cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

MEP Product Research

Balint Kezer
Graphisoft
Graphisoft
Dear all,

As a Product Manager for MEP related developments I would like to better understand the needs of architects and engineers using our products. Because of this I have compiled the following survey: https://bit.ly/GSMEP.

Responses are more than welcome. I'm also open to any ideas you might have regarding this topic, feel free to provide them here in this topic.

Best regards,
Balint Kezer
GRAPHISOFT Product Manager
96 REPLIES 96

Balint Kezer
Graphisoft
Graphisoft
Aaron wrote:
In 1999, when Graphisoft was not yet part of Nemetchek (circa 2006), they purchased a UK firm called Cymap that was Revit MEP and more - long before there was a Revit MEP.

https://www.graphisoft.com/info/news/press_releases/cymap.html

I had a demo version of this and had some online live demos. It was quite brilliant.
Thanks Aaron, do you believe that Cymap had more functionality than Revit at that time or the Revit we know now? (Revit was first released in 2000).
Balint Kezer
GRAPHISOFT Product Manager

Aaron Bourgoin
Advocate
Cymap was far more functional than Revit. As an example, it would size pipes and ducts, but iit also did trunking and sizing of electrical circuits in a building.
Think Like a Spec Writer
AC23-3003 USA / AC24-4018 USA
Rhino 7 Mac
OSX 10.14.6 & 11.3.1

Balint Kezer
Graphisoft
Graphisoft
vdentello wrote:
Connections need almost 20 parameters each, that have to be created one by one inside the parameter tab.
I need to create a Draing with 8 possible connections and don't even wanna think about how much time i'm spending just doing this. The documentation is quite Short.

The GDL issue is that once you start setting up, everthing is still black and white. As it gets bigger, it becomes a mess. There are not even line numbers in GDL for a quick look.

If only recognized parameters or even just the comments became another color, it would be awesome.
Ok, so the issue here is that creating GDL objects is a really hard and time-consuming task. It would be helpful if we would enhance GDL creation.
About segment length i meant the IFC mapping of it and the schedules, I know how to pick them up inside the object, but they could be more explicit or passed to value "A".

Something Like that, and maybe setting a custom predefined Favorite for each angle
For now, unless you pick up the predefinition before a bend, its gonna choose something that is not right.
Something like a C++ Switch wich would check the angles and select the predefined bend/ radius/ size just like manufacturer sizes. Maybe those could look up to a simple txt/ XML sheet that has the favorite name/ rules.

The slope just caught me I never new about this! I've always expected to change it on the go, just like the roof tool.
I understand what you are saying, especially regarding the predefined bend sizes. I believe that this is one of the main issue currently with the MEP Modeler.
Balint Kezer
GRAPHISOFT Product Manager

Balint Kezer
Graphisoft
Graphisoft
Njegos wrote:
I have a couple of suggestions.
I created my library as a favorite of several material manufacturers used in my state. If I have drawn a pipe and the next element is bend, the MEP should automatically recognize the diameter of the pipe and suggest which angle I want to use. MEP has this option, but it only changes the diameter of the favorites that I used before and the other settings remain the same.
Also, it should be an option to change the shape of the connector and band shape( change point position of (B) Bend Radius).
Also a suggestion for creating schedules. When I made my schedules I had to add a new Property Manager and a new Classification Manager to make it easier to identify favorites, but I never managed to make a table that would sum up the lengths of pipes of a certain diameter and material, which are bought per meter long, not piece by piece.
There is a lot of small things that I would like to change, but I don't know is it worth for the others not just for me.
Thanks for the suggestions Njegos.

The automatic bend radius detection is certainly an issue that should be fixed.
By changing the shape of the connector do you mean the changing of the Connection Type (Flanged or Simple Body)? I also agree that duct and pipe sizes are bought by the meter (especially in larger projects) and the software should facilitate this.
Balint Kezer
GRAPHISOFT Product Manager

Balint Kezer
Graphisoft
Graphisoft
Braza wrote:
If GS is trying to improve AC MEP capabilities, I would suggest to contact a guy named Valeriy Ivanov.
You can find information about his work here.
He seems to be well versed in AC MEP GDL and has a very solid work in this area.
Perhaps a partnership with him to improve AC MEP Library.
Anyway... I don't think GS should spend much resources trying to do what other dedicated software do better for decades.
IMHO, Just improving the MEP library and minor tweaking on the input nodes would be enough.

Cheers,

p.s.: Here is a video about his latest works.

Thanks Braza. We know about Valery and appreciate his work. He does really detailed objects and sells them to MEP designers. What kind of partnership would you imagine? Asking Valery to help develop objects for ARCHICAD library?

I agree that there are other MEP focused software doing a much better job than we can do, we will maintain our focus on the architecture segment, but will also cater for the needs of the other disciplines.
Balint Kezer
GRAPHISOFT Product Manager

Balint Kezer
Graphisoft
Graphisoft
Aaron wrote:
Cymap was far more functional than Revit. As an example, it would size pipes and ducts, but iit also did trunking and sizing of electrical circuits in a building.
Clear, so it was much better in analysis and calculation functions at that time.
Just a fun fact: Much of the MEP Modeler is based on Cymap, but the target group changed from MEP Engineers to Architects.
Balint Kezer
GRAPHISOFT Product Manager

Anonymous
Not applicable
Thank you Balint!
Balint Kezer wrote:
...Asking Valery to help develop objects for ARCHICAD library?

Yes. But for starts, if GS could get an agreement with him and convert and add his already existent library within AC MEP Package would be great.
Especially for those AC users that are Engineers or even some Architects that due to business option do this kind of service.
But always as an Extra Addon with focus on just modeling, not Calculation/Analysis.
Just my 2cents.

Cheers,

Aaron Bourgoin
Advocate
Clear, so it was much better in analysis and calculation functions at that time.
Just a fun fact: Much of the MEP Modeler is based on Cymap, but the target group changed from MEP Engineers to Architects.
Bring back the Electrics, then. Objects and Symbols for everything from the Transformer to the Emergency Generator and everything in between.
Think Like a Spec Writer
AC23-3003 USA / AC24-4018 USA
Rhino 7 Mac
OSX 10.14.6 & 11.3.1

Aaron Bourgoin
Advocate
I think Braza's proposal is well worth considering. I've been looking at the MEP posts on Facebook over the years. He shows such dedication to the craft of Building Systems.

+1
Think Like a Spec Writer
AC23-3003 USA / AC24-4018 USA
Rhino 7 Mac
OSX 10.14.6 & 11.3.1

Anonymous
Not applicable
Aaron Bourgoin wrote:
...He shows such dedication to the craft of Building Systems.

Exactly!... "The force is strong with this one"

Steve Jepson
Advisor
It wont be too long before we will be able to just import the MEP models made by the original design software.

We can't always get that, when it is not available I have sent the 2D files to someone white the 3D deisgn software and they can generate the model form that data faster than I can model it using MEP Modeler software. Someone will need to be paid for the model, you might as well get it directly form the person who designed the system.

https://www.wrightsoft.com/Products/Right-HVAC
https://www.wrightsoft.com/Products/Right-CAD
https://www.wrightsoft.com/Products/Desktop_Solutions/Right-Suite_Universal

https://www.wrightsoft.com/Download


https://mep.trimble.com/product/trimble-managed-itm-content/

If it is not going to have any Analysis function, whats the point of modeling it. Get it modeled by a program where the model is integrated with design and analysis.
https://www.autodesk.com/products/revit/mep?plc=RVT&term=1-YEAR&support=ADVANCED&quantity=1#internal...

ArchiCAD 25 4013 USA - Windows 10 Pro 64x - Dell 7720 64 GB 2400MHz ECC - Xeon E3 1535M v6 4.20GHz - (2) 1TB M.2 PCIe Class 50 SSD's - 17.3" UHD IPS (3840x2160) - Nvidia Quadro P5000 16GB GDDR5 - Maxwell Studio/Render 5.2.1.49- Multilight 2 - Adobe Acrobat Pro

Anonymous
Not applicable
Hi Steve,

I always had this same opinion.
But several AC fellows here, on other forum topic, have made a fair point:
Apparently, a lot of AC users offer utilities systems projects for small projects, where subcontracting them would reduce profit margins. Having MEP modeling tools would allow them to improve their business opportunities.

Steve Jepson
Advisor
Braza wrote:
Hi Steve,

I always had this same opinion.
But several AC fellows here, on other forum topic, have made a fair point:
Apparently, a lot of AC users offer utilities systems projects for small projects, where subcontracting them would reduce profit margins. Having MEP modeling tools would allow them to improve their business opportunities.
Yes. That makes sense to me. There are times when I design my own MEP and Fires Sprinkler systems and do the calcs by hand since I don't do it often enough to justify a subscription to other design software. I can still model it and provide the calcs necessary for planning and designing the rest of the building. What I would like to see for the ArchiCAD MEP Modeler is a very large library of very detailed .gsm parts to match manufactures models for the same parts. Victaulic for example. Revit MEP has a lot of very useful MEP model parts. https://www.victaulic.com/resource-software/

ArchiCAD 25 4013 USA - Windows 10 Pro 64x - Dell 7720 64 GB 2400MHz ECC - Xeon E3 1535M v6 4.20GHz - (2) 1TB M.2 PCIe Class 50 SSD's - 17.3" UHD IPS (3840x2160) - Nvidia Quadro P5000 16GB GDDR5 - Maxwell Studio/Render 5.2.1.49- Multilight 2 - Adobe Acrobat Pro

DGSketcher
Virtuoso
I'm one of those in house basic service modellers where I need to show drain runs, MVHR vent lines etc on residential projects. I would love to have a detailed set of drainage components from preferred UK pipe manufacturers, but I think we have to recognise that GS aren't going to throw money at creating copies of each manufacturer's parts. That is really down to GS persuading manufacturer's that the AC user base is big enough for them to justify investing in the marketing & development of quality GDL components. Or maybe Link's Revit conversion tools could be used to convert the required parts? GS need to make the MEP system work with versatile components that can do a good representation of a system based on common requirements, this way we can get things drawn quickly and then if budgets allow and manufacturer's models are available we can up the level of detail to suit the job.
Apple iMac macOS Big Sur / AC24UKI (most recent builds)

Anonymous
Not applicable
Yep! I guess we all end up on the Visual GDL Editor Topic.
Or perhaps Param-o 2.0 will save the day.

Njegos T
Participant
Balint wrote:

Thanks for the suggestions Njegos.

The automatic bend radius detection is certainly an issue that should be fixed.
By changing the shape of the connector do you mean the changing of the Connection Type (Flanged or Simple Body)? I also agree that duct and pipe sizes are bought by the meter (especially in larger projects) and the software should facilitate this.
About the shape that I meant is the shape of Flange, there is many different shapes in use.
Also, there should be an extra palette for settings of an element, hate use Ctrl+T every time.

Lukas Zeleny
Contributor
Balint wrote:
Lukas wrote:
To attract more MEP professionals to Archicad it is essential to include also capacity calculations.
But it's definitely a good direction to focus on MEP.
Thanks Lukas for the feedback. What do you mean by capacity calculations? Are you referring to electrical calculations that help with electrical modeling?
Yes and also presure loss for Air ducts, water pieps and more.
The most effective workflow is when specialist makes the model of MEP and not the architect. It is time-consuming to remodel MEP according to specialist plans. And keeping it this way up to date is a nightmare. There are two ways. Specialist uses his own software and sends IFC or other BIM format for import in Archicad. Or the second one when specialist models MEP directli in archicad, which is better. Remodeling anithing by architect is a step back.
BIM Manager at SIEBERT+TALAŠ
www.sieberttalas.com

bouhmidage
Enthusiast
there is some good work on creating well detailled MEP library parts, but i think, the BIM softwares can't receive too much polygons ( even when the parts are scripted not imoorted from other softwares)
a MEP model, a tank or anything, can be presented with some simple shapes, that's a presentation, not a world reconstruction,we need to know how it looks in general, how much space it fills, how much connections can receive, that's all ! a photo of the product ,embedded with the library part, can do the job.
so spending hours on creating detailled library just for "looking good" will consume time upon developping more interesting features,
AMD Ryzen 9 3900X, 32 GB RAM, RTX 3080 10 GB

Archicad 23

Windows 10 professional

https://www.behance.net/Nuance-Architects

Anonymous
Not applicable
I think that with the current exponential increase of chipset processing power (Wait for quantum computers ) ,polygons/file size won't be a problem for a long time. I am sure any Architect won't complain about too much detailed objects if they can visualize them in real time with no lags.
I see the future of BIM in extremely detailed objects for AEC commercial products, that have various LOD's (Level of Detail) according to documentation needs.
This is what Valery Ivanov is doing with his MEP Library and IMO, his approach should be followed for every player in the MEP Design industry.

Aaron Bourgoin
Advocate
I'll keep seconding Braza's comments re: Valery Ivanov's library. GS, please get on this. We do not need manufacturer specific MEP objects, m. but we need MEP objects.
Think Like a Spec Writer
AC23-3003 USA / AC24-4018 USA
Rhino 7 Mac
OSX 10.14.6 & 11.3.1

Still looking?

Browse more topics

Back to forum

See latest solutions

Accepted solutions

Start a new discussion!