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MEP Product Research

Balint Kezer
Graphisoft
Graphisoft
Dear all,

As a Product Manager for MEP related developments I would like to better understand the needs of architects and engineers using our products. Because of this I have compiled the following survey: https://bit.ly/GSMEP.

Responses are more than welcome. I'm also open to any ideas you might have regarding this topic, feel free to provide them here in this topic.

Best regards,
Balint Kezer
GRAPHISOFT Product Manager
97 REPLIES 97

Nader Belal
Mentor
29. If you are still going to communicate with the MEP plugin using a Macro, then I advise that "MEP_m_ConnectionsACL_4" would separate visibility option of Hotspots from that of the 3D body.
A good friend of mine have once told me that I´m so brute that I´m capable of creating a GDL script capable of creating GDLs.

Minh Nguyen
Graphisoft Alumni
Graphisoft Alumni
bouhmidage wrote:
The SAF format inspired me, this logic could be used in MEP in other sort,
MEP elements are " a block " with connections, inputs and outputs, a common format between all MEP softwares, that scribes theese inputs and outputs and " the block itself"
Inputs : common input parameter ,
Output ; Common output parameter
Block : geometry convertion

ARCHICAD_2020-10-28_14-19-52.png
Hello,

Thank you very much for sharing this idea! Personally I think that it's a great one!

I am happy to say we took notice of this wish and I have added it to our Wish List database (please refer to it as Wish #12919). Hopefully, our Product Management team will adopt this one in the future.

Thank you once again, and I wish you a great day!

Best regards,
Minh

Minh Nguyen
Technical Support Engineer
GRAPHISOFT

Nader Belal
Mentor
@bouhmidage

Where can we consult SAF format ??
A good friend of mine have once told me that I´m so brute that I´m capable of creating a GDL script capable of creating GDLs.

Jp1138
Expert
Moonlight wrote:
@bouhmidage

Where can we consult SAF format ??

https://saf.guide/
ARCHICAD 26 SPA
Windows 10

bouhmidage
Advisor
Thanks Jp1138 for the link !
AMD Ryzen 9 3900X, 32 GB RAM, RTX 3080 10 GB
Archicad 25
Windows 10 professional
https://www.behance.net/Nuance-Architects

bouhmidage
Advisor
Thanks Mnguyen
Maybe like that it's more clear !
AMD Ryzen 9 3900X, 32 GB RAM, RTX 3080 10 GB
Archicad 25
Windows 10 professional
https://www.behance.net/Nuance-Architects

Minh Nguyen
Graphisoft Alumni
Graphisoft Alumni
bouhmidage wrote:
Thanks Mnguyen
Maybe like that it's more clear !

ARCHICAD_2020-11-04_18-49-29.png
Hello,

Thank you for the illustration! I attached it with the wish already. It would be a big help to our Product Management team!

Best regards,
Minh

Minh Nguyen
Technical Support Engineer
GRAPHISOFT

Nader Belal
Mentor
@bouhmidage

Just few comments,
  • As much as I can see the SAF Format, at least for now, it was geared towards Structural engineering, and not for MEP, and even then SAF format do have information about structural elements and spaces, and I do fail to see how would that be applied for MEP engineering, unless Nemetschek with other collaborating companies redefine SAF to include MEP data.
  • Even if your answer would be let's just the geometry right now until Nemetschek modifies SAF to include MEP data for SAF, well what improvement does it holds against send files as IFC which can send and receive geometric structural and MEP data, and is also accepted with a longer list of BIM programs and platforms !!!!
A good friend of mine have once told me that I´m so brute that I´m capable of creating a GDL script capable of creating GDLs.

bouhmidage
Advisor
@Moonlight,
Well,
The ideai is not not to make .SAF format include MEP data, i mean, using the SAF logic to generate parametric MEP objects and MEP systems
the SAF is like nodes, linked with lines,
with analogy , the MEP new format is like the attachement



if things will be standardised, now one will refuse to use the new format, except of the "monopole defenders" and we all know who are the monopole creators in the BIM field,
in the MEP world, manufacturers are the big player, no MEP without objects, if they adobt this solution, all softwares will move on, especially when we talk about a simplified sharing solution,
a file with lines, points and data, each software read and write in it according to it's logic
AMD Ryzen 9 3900X, 32 GB RAM, RTX 3080 10 GB
Archicad 25
Windows 10 professional
https://www.behance.net/Nuance-Architects

Nader Belal
Mentor
@bouhmidage

I see this as useless for the following reasons:
1. IFC is already the file format with similar capability + its open source, not vender specific as SAF is, and if you went to buildingsmart site, you will be able to see more BIM + CAD programs that can import and export IFC files. while SAF is only accepted by 10 program vender as maximum.

2. Most of the MEP equipments and connections are govern by the spaces they serve, and by the requirements of local regulations, so either way you will have to export project's spaces configuration and distribution, which would be either by using the original program's file, or through IFC ....
If you're going to use original files, then there is no need to use SAF, as the two programs will be able to communicate with each other directly, and if you're going to use IFC, then again you don't need SAF for nothing, since it's already exporting the geometry and data not only of the equipments but everything (almost everything you're using).

3. Then again you insisted on the point that equipment's node would carry the data for MEP connections, and again I tell you, I quick checked SAF site, and I couldn't find information about MEP what so ever, but it had information on structural connections, so SAF NEEDS TO INCLUDE MEP NODE SPECIFICATIONS FIRST, then the other programs to ADOPT IT, to make your idea viable. You simple can't put the cart before the horse.

4. I´m not familiar of different MEP design, calculation and modelling programs, except for Revit & CYPE, and both from my point of view can handle the data exchange with ArchiCAD using IFC, which will include geometry and data, cause in that case, you will have a combination of IFC project models (Architectural, Structural, Engineering), and in that case with an 80% of certainty, who ever made the Architectural model will not model the MEP system in ArchiCAD, and even then exporting/importing an IFC of the required model would do the trick.

5. ArchiCAD should set a number of reserved parameters for MEP, and right now, what is available is too low, and if we are going to talk about Electrical Equipments the shortage is stark.
A good friend of mine have once told me that I´m so brute that I´m capable of creating a GDL script capable of creating GDLs.

bouhmidage
Advisor
this will not replace the IFC model exchange format, but an addition to it, the IFC SAV format which is experimental now, inspired me , to mimic the same idea but for MEP. a combination between IFC and a new smart and lightweight format
AMD Ryzen 9 3900X, 32 GB RAM, RTX 3080 10 GB
Archicad 25
Windows 10 professional
https://www.behance.net/Nuance-Architects

bouhmidage
Advisor
@moonlight
Do you work with ddscad ? Does mergi g ddscad and archicad will bring some benefits ?
AMD Ryzen 9 3900X, 32 GB RAM, RTX 3080 10 GB
Archicad 25
Windows 10 professional
https://www.behance.net/Nuance-Architects

Nader Belal
Mentor
bouhmidage wrote:
@moonlight
Do you work with ddscad ? Does mergi g ddscad and archicad will bring some benefits ?
Sorry @bouhmidage, I have never had the chance to work with DDSCAD
A good friend of mine have once told me that I´m so brute that I´m capable of creating a GDL script capable of creating GDLs.

A_ Smith
Advocate
one more thing. MEP pipes. When I chose "MEP system" pipe and elbow have different settings from tee. Could you place "MEP system" option on the same (first) tab?
AC 22, 24 | Win 10

Nader Belal
Mentor
29. I have observed lately that the MEP colour coded system doesn't apply to terimal equipment, only pipes and ducts, and I think that the colour coding should also apply to them.

30. Many MEP equipments may have connection to different MEP systems, for example, a central HVAC equipments are require a water intake outlet and a connection to a drain beside the ducts, so in this case we may require that those equipments may adopt colour coding of any of MEP equipment
A good friend of mine have once told me that I´m so brute that I´m capable of creating a GDL script capable of creating GDLs.

A_ Smith
Advocate
MEP_isolation should be transferred to inline objects (IO) too. Honestly, when you have pipes with isolation and inserted IO it looks a bit ugly.

Would be nice if there was the possibility to apply for all selected elements (not by choosing each category of elements separately - pipes, elbows, tees, IO, but for all of them) to :
1. Change the diameter (ConWidth_1 for selection) - of course, in that case, everything that was selected (even if different diameters) became with the same dimension.
2. Add isolation. It's more convenient to add it after routing, placing inline objects. Applies the same isolation (thickness, material) for selected different pipe/ducts diameter.
3. Change MEP system.
AC 22, 24 | Win 10

A_ Smith
Advocate
You should expand the possibility of pipe settings for each system type. For example, in a project I have different types of pipes, which can have different lengths of the tubes - for heating one piece of a tube can be 50, 100; but sewer pipes only 3m, 6m. It's not convenient to change max_lenght several times if I want precise tubes specification. I mean if I draw a straight tube 50m for heating, domestic hot and cold water it should be one piece, but if it's sewerage it should consist of 8 x 6m + 2m pipes (if 6m length is maximum).
AC 22, 24 | Win 10

vdentello
Booster
A. wrote:
You should expand the possibility of pipe settings for each system type. For example, in a project I have different types of pipes, which can have different lengths of the tubes - for heating one piece of a tube can be 50, 100; but sewer pipes only 3m, 6m. It's not convenient to change max_lenght several times if I want precise tubes specification. I mean if I draw a straight tube 50m for heating, domestic hot and cold water it should be one piece, but if it's sewerage it should consist of 8 x 6m + 2m pipes (if 6m length is maximum).
Totally agree on that and: I would add the Option to make custom Bends selectable and also their angles.
As long as they meet the GDL standard parameter criteria, of course.
Archicad User Since 2013
GDL Developer
Experimenting with API
from Brazil

Aaron Bourgoin
Advisor
What about the M - E - P equivalent of the Steel Shapes Menu. Here in Canada, for example, it's likely that we use both metric and imperial product.

Construction goes to the International market when necessary: a new building beside my office here in Toronto sourced steel columns from Spain for the caisson work.
Think Like a Spec Writer

AC4.55 through 26 / USA AC25-5010 USA

Rhino 7 Mac

MacOS 11.6.5

Aaron Bourgoin
Advisor
Can PARAM-O make MEP Parts?
Think Like a Spec Writer

AC4.55 through 26 / USA AC25-5010 USA

Rhino 7 Mac

MacOS 11.6.5

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