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MEP Product Research

Balint Kezer
Graphisoft
Graphisoft
Dear all,

As a Product Manager for MEP related developments I would like to better understand the needs of architects and engineers using our products. Because of this I have compiled the following survey: https://bit.ly/GSMEP.

Responses are more than welcome. I'm also open to any ideas you might have regarding this topic, feel free to provide them here in this topic.

Best regards,
Balint Kezer
GRAPHISOFT Product Manager
97 REPLIES 97

Jp1138
Expert
One of the Spanish distributors is describing the new integrated MEP modeller in ARCHICAD 24

https://acespana.com/mep-modeler
ARCHICAD 25 SPA
Windows 10

Laszlo Nagy
Community Admin
Community Admin
Let me copy the link of a post another user made about requested new MEP functionalities:

https://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=70037#p312225
....................................................................................................
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AMD Ryzen 1700X CPU, 48 GB RAM, Nvidia GTX 1060 6GB, 500 GB NVMe SSD
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Loving Archicad since 1995

Nader Belal
Mentor
I would like to thank @Braza for directing me to this thread, and @Lazlo for copying the link.

And with all your permission I will write down all the things that I think that should be addressed for ArchiCAD MEP:

1. I have found out that an efficient way of modelling MEP services based on other media sources (ex: Pointcloud), is to use Morphs 3D Polylines as MEP routes' guide lines/axis, therefore I wish (if possible) to use the magic wand to model the would highlight trajectory.
And although I know that this isn't the place to comment about Morphs, but I think the Morphs Node for this case must be made more visible, or bigger, because with the method I have just mentioned, search for a Morph node in a PointCloud is like search for a needle in the hey's stack.

2. More MEP options for GDL objects (specially for ducts & tubes) in MEP Routing Palette, as I find out that sometime I see the options get changed, and changing it back is an inconvenience (example: I want welded ducts, but after click the last point, I get flanged ducts)

3. Off axis elements, since I have seen some pipes and ducts may grow or change in size or form off the MEP route axis..

4. Custom thickness Flanged Ducts and pipes: current MEP objects relate ducts' & pipes flanged thickness to pipe thickness, but this can be an issue for LOD 200+ modeliing.

5. Graphisoft should set a bare minimum of standardised parameters (similar to those already set by Graphisoft for doors, windows, labels, & etc) to be used for MEP related data, not only for library parts creators, but also for data exchange. For example, I have found out that most of these parameters are deficient but those related to electricity (AC/DC) are shocking and stark, just as I tried to reach out Graphisoft in this thread https://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?p=298840#p298840.
And if you will permit me, I strongly advise that the names of those parameters be adapted/inspired by EN norms.

6. A lot, and I mean a lot of your MEP object, lacks a decent number of hotspots and hotlines for 3D views, which can make 3D modelling a time wasting exercise.
For example: Model a wide rectangular duct at an angle, that have two non-uniform transitions of different sizes put side by side at the end of that duct, so that the outer perimeter of the transitions' edges should meet with those of the duct.
Update: I have been recently alerted that duct's more fittings was the answer for this particular inconvenience, but the need for more hotspots, hotlines & hotsarcs is still relevant and necessary ... So I would also like to add that in case of more fittings, we also need to set the size of the divisions between the secondary ducts.

7. For lighting, please add a simple 3D model for a simple/basic wall mounted flourescent lamp (or similar) for lighting & MEP purposes. https://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?p=311729#p311729

8. Last year, I have stumbled on a case were inline objects may have needed more than 2 MEP hotsopts, as I have explained in this thread https://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=67407&p=300657#p300657

9. I would like you to check ArchiCAD's standards ducts, cause (and that if I don't remember to be wrong), when ever you set them to any MEP system, you can get them to change colour (for MEP indicator), but if you tried to return them to "Undefined", they simply wouldn't do ... I remember it to be a very easy bug fix in GDL.

10. Grasshopper connection, don't forget about that, and don't forget that sometime we need to extract the data in Grasshopper for calculations in Grasshopper.

11. In Revit there is a nice options that is available for electric appliances, were the hotspot will mention very simple info about the connection, like how many cables, volts etc, this must be implemented.
Update: Just to be clear, I'm not aiming that ArchiCAD should handle MEP calculations, what I aim for, that the user can have access to on screen data in its simplest form about the MEP connectors, in case of that the library part should have those data embedded.

12. Just a reminder, if you will incorporate changes, such for the parameters, don't forget to mention them in the manuals, and may be with a simple diagram so that we don't make wrong assumptions from our part (specially in the GDL manual).

13. Sometime, we would need to raise a node of a MEP element vertically in sections and elevation, right now we can't do that.

A good friend of mine have once told me that I´m so brute that I´m capable of creating a GDL script capable of creating GDLs.

Nader Belal
Mentor
Few other points that I have just stumbled upon:

14. Takeoff must be able to connect with transitions ducts.

15. Better controls for Wye pipes so that if I have one that flows vertically, and I need to change it's configuration, ArchiCAD wouldn't rotate it horizontally.

16. This is optional, once in an engineering firm I was exposed to a method of expressing different MEP routes by naming the nodes by numeric values, in such a way we can follow them as if it had a tree data structure, with trucks and branches, that goes from one specific node origin to destination node (of-course it was more elaborate than that) written down in a spreadsheet.
This method simplified MEP calculations, and revisions enormously, and it would be advantageous for ArchiCAD to include this option as a schedule scheme.
A good friend of mine have once told me that I´m so brute that I´m capable of creating a GDL script capable of creating GDLs.

Nader Belal
Mentor
17. You should also revise the rotation matrix for cable trays, cause I have just stumbled on the case were I needed to a vertical tray , with its bottom is facing the wall and no cover.
On plan it's correctly represented, but in 3D view, it appears as if it was rotated 180º.
A good friend of mine have once told me that I´m so brute that I´m capable of creating a GDL script capable of creating GDLs.

Nader Belal
Mentor
18. Electric MEP, should have Trucking Square profiles as an independent library parts, so that we don't have to use square duct profiles as trucking profiles.
A good friend of mine have once told me that I´m so brute that I´m capable of creating a GDL script capable of creating GDLs.

Nader Belal
Mentor
19. Air Diffuser needs to have the option to be connected from the top surface, and not just by the sides.

20. The objects "Rect Louver Face Ceiling Diffuser XX" & "Square Louver Face Ceiling Diffuser XX" are practically the same, you can even go with the rectangular, change its dimensions and make is a square, & the opposite is true.
I advise, you just keep the rectangular.
A good friend of mine have once told me that I´m so brute that I´m capable of creating a GDL script capable of creating GDLs.

Aaron Bourgoin
Advisor
Does the MEP package hook up water and vents to household appliances? washers, dryers, stoves, fridges, etc.
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Nader Belal
Mentor
@Aaron Bourgoin

only if the library object was scripted with MEP connectors
A good friend of mine have once told me that I´m so brute that I´m capable of creating a GDL script capable of creating GDLs.

jl_lt
Advisor
Everything Mr. Moonlight said

Nader Belal
Mentor
@jl_lt Thank you

For the rest, some of my previous comments have been updated.

21. Although this option may or may not cause controversy, I see this one as required.
For those who would install the MEP modeler, I would like to see a substory or sub-level that in the Project organiser just for MEP elements, where MEP objects trajectory axe many dock to them by the will of the user.
The reason for that, is that many MEP elements (especially: ducts and tubes) would always be flow or stay at the same height for most of its trajectory, unless those trajectory must evade an impediment.
A good friend of mine have once told me that I´m so brute that I´m capable of creating a GDL script capable of creating GDLs.

Nader Belal
Mentor
22. Revise ArchiCAD's MEP libraries:
for example:
a. The dryer should have and exhaust connection.
b. Kitchen hoods lacks parameters for electric connection
c. Laboratory Workstation also lacks parameters for electric connections
A good friend of mine have once told me that I´m so brute that I´m capable of creating a GDL script capable of creating GDLs.

bouhmidage
Advisor
I was thinking about a link between mep elements and the opening tool, it would be handy,
When mep elements are moved, the created opening follows
AMD Ryzen 9 3900X, 32 GB RAM, RTX 3080 10 GB
Archicad 25
Windows 10 professional
https://www.behance.net/Nuance-Architects

Nader Belal
Mentor
That is quiet interesting @boumidage.

Anyway, this can also be archived in GDL, by a special command, and scripting a hidden geometry that using SEO will apply the desired opening.
A good friend of mine have once told me that I´m so brute that I´m capable of creating a GDL script capable of creating GDLs.

Nader Belal
Mentor
23. ArchiCAD's MEP library parts must undergo a revision .... for example, many library parts may shared with multiple systems, such as electric and HVAC, or electric, control and HVAC

24. I have just stumbled on the case of creating a library part for a fire curtain barrier with electric input and controls system, but to use the MEP plugin for cabling tubing the library part must be of Flow Equipment classification, and since the IFC (2x3 TC1 and 4.1) classification, Flow Equipment in general are only used for carrying fluids (liquids and gas), this will not be the correct library object type
A good friend of mine have once told me that I´m so brute that I´m capable of creating a GDL script capable of creating GDLs.

Nader Belal
Mentor
25. The macro file with the name of "FM_Types", needs an urgent update.
A good friend of mine have once told me that I´m so brute that I´m capable of creating a GDL script capable of creating GDLs.

Nader Belal
Mentor
26. About the previous points about the parameters that should deal with MEP data, I would also like to add the following, I would like that Graphisoft would add the possibility to add custom made parameters for those MEP data snippets that are custom made and adopted by different regions, and it would have the same characteristics of Global parameters, in such a way that they can also be added to GDL library Parts for ArchiCAD to consult and handle ... and this will also require that Graphisoft would establish the methodology for creating such parameters.
A good friend of mine have once told me that I´m so brute that I´m capable of creating a GDL script capable of creating GDLs.

Nader Belal
Mentor
27. ArchiCAD MEP Equipments are limited to a max of 18 MEP connections, but lately I have seen few cases where 18 connection per equipment for creating MEP Library Parts were not enough, I think that it's time to increase the number of connections.

28. MEP Library Parts must be defined as flow equipment so that the MEP plugin would functioning properly with the MEP connections, but that condition must be open up to other subtypes, for instance, I have lately been facing a smoke and fire screen with MEP connections, were there correct IFC definition would be that of IFCDoor, so it was expected that their GDL subtype would be of Door, but to make the MEP connection function, I had to choose the MEP Flow Equipment.
A good friend of mine have once told me that I´m so brute that I´m capable of creating a GDL script capable of creating GDLs.

A_ Smith
Advocate
MEP pipes.

I don't understand why MEP settings contain Standard Bend Angles, but in fact, uses any angle to make a routing the shortest. Feels like they are useless - on matter what you set, nothing changes. Or am I missing smth? Manufacturers don't provide elbows with 37.89° or any other unusual, especially for sewer. I wish MEP had the option for elbows (also Tees) to
1. Use standard angles bends only.
2. Any angle.
3. Combine (if possible) - kinda standard angles are preferred, but to prevent a path from becoming too twisted, use standard/or_not+ 1 non-standard angle (smth like an exception for simplicity of a path).

Also would be useful to add the possibility to rotate equipment, pipe's elements in any direction (x,y,z).


I also agree with everything @Braza said before. Ofc we'd love to get all library Valerij has created . But as far as I know, he has lots of similar elements (pipes, valves) - the only difference is the manufacturer (M). Frankly speaking, a few mm won't change much. So we could use for instance one M. It'd be much better if you manage to M become interested in that their products should be presented in AC MEP, so they would sponsor this development.

About calculation/analysis - a nice feature, but require too many efforts to make it from the start (pressure loss and etc. for pipes; ducts is doable - at least to calculate dimensions and pressure loss, based on info from air terminals).
I use the polish program Audytor for calculations heat loads and pipes. They've made a plugin for exporting all of the objects after calculations to Revit (http://en.sankom.net/programs/audytor-set-for-revit). If audytor made the same plugin for AC (or vice versa), it'd be enough (I'm talking right now not about that specific program, but any other that you'd find appropriate for this goal, it's just easier to explain the idea).


edit 27.10.2020:
MEP pipes - when I have built 2 different pipes with the same path, but need to change diameter for one - it's not convenient:
___a) the whole rout is selected->settings of pipe->change Ø --> changes ONLY Ø pipes; elbows, tees remain with the same Ø. We'd be nice to change Ø of all selected elements;
___b) why only at the window of automatic routing is possible to choose Ø from the pop-down menu. When the pipes have been built and you go to settings to change the Ø, there is no pop-down menu. I need manually to change Ø, nominal Ø and thickness. That all should be chosen from standard pipes Ø;
___c) sometimes I need an additional hotspot for elbow -> not to rotate it, but change the angle of the elbow;
___d) I use an interactive schedule to sum total length. It works fine. The problem appears when I want to do the same with heating floor pipes - the schedule doesn't count the length of "elbowed pipe". In AC elbows are other elements than pipes, but in real life, it is simply one piece of pipe, just twisted. Is it possible to add some kind of checkmark in the settings of the system - do I want that length of elbows was added to the total length of pipes?
___e) another thing with the length sum of pipes in a schedule - actually it's a rare situation that I need each piece/segment of pipe. Usually, all I need is a total length of pipe for different Ø. I can't add this schedule as a table - tooo long

p.s. the interface isn't in English (attachments), but settings buttons/options should be at the same place
AC 22, 24 | Win 10

bouhmidage
Advisor
The SAF format inspired me, this logic could be used in MEP in other sort,
MEP elements are " a block " with connections, inputs and outputs, a common format between all MEP softwares, that scribes theese inputs and outputs and " the block itself"
Inputs : common input parameter ,
Output ; Common output parameter
Block : geometry convertion
AMD Ryzen 9 3900X, 32 GB RAM, RTX 3080 10 GB
Archicad 25
Windows 10 professional
https://www.behance.net/Nuance-Architects

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