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More intelligent point cloud to BIM workflow

bouhmidage
Enthusiast
Hi, i watched the bricsys presentation yesterday, and the Point cloud to BIM approach was just AMAZING, it can't be done better than the way they presented,
the software detects :
* Strories
* wall boundaries in 2D
* coplanar points converted to wall - slab
* open 360 images directly from the point cloud,
this is the video !



ArchiCAD should enter this field, the actual working process is very limited, and time consuming unfortunately,
AMD Ryzen 9 3900X, 32 GB RAM, RTX 3080 10 GB

Archicad 23

Windows 10 professional

https://www.behance.net/Nuance-Architects
13 REPLIES 13

Anonymous
Not applicable
I totally agree with bouhmidage

Minh Nguyen
Graphisoft Moderator
Graphisoft Moderator
Hello,

Thank you very much for sharing this! It is indeed a very cool feature! It would be a great help if we can detect such elements from the Point Cloud data

I have entered your comment as a wish in our Wish List database (please refer to it as #12920). Hopefully, our Product Management team will consider implementing it in the future!

Thank you once again, and have a great day!

Best regards,
Minh

Minh Nguyen
Technical Support Engineer
GRAPHISOFT

Steve Jepson
Advisor
Before I invest in a scanner for generating point clouds, I would like to read some discussions from point cloud users about the usefulness of the point cloud as it relates to the process of creating an ArchiCAD model.
To me the point cloud seems to be a good solution for anything I can not easily measure with other methods, but I am not so sure if it is actually any better or faster than other methods of measuring things - when you consider that you still need to interpret the observable information to make a precision model of the building. You still have to harmonize the observable dimensions and points into a rational and coherent plan/model for what was the original/theoretical intention. All of the observable deviations from square, plumb, straight... are harmonized in the modeling process to tell the true/theoretical story about what was intended. To me the point cloud is just one of several methods that would be useful for some projects, but not always the best. How do people like using the point clouds vs lasers, stereo photography, pictures, or just a tape measure ? Are you able to make good use of an .e57 with ArchiCAD ? So far, I find it to be too difficult to bother with when making a precision model.

ArchiCAD 25 4013 USA - Windows 10 Pro 64x - Dell 7720 64 GB 2400MHz ECC - Xeon E3 1535M v6 4.20GHz - (2) 1TB M.2 PCIe Class 50 SSD's - 17.3" UHD IPS (3840x2160) - Nvidia Quadro P5000 16GB GDDR5 - Maxwell Studio/Render 5.2.1.49- Multilight 2 - Adobe Acrobat Pro

bouhmidage
Enthusiast
My experience with pointcloud isn't that big, i remodeled some little houses an terrains from a point cloud, i would say that the xperience wasn't so good, here is my point of view :
1 - ArchiCAD can't handle big clouds, bigger than 4 GB, you have to break it and link it seperately using cloud compare.
2 - Navigation : working on a PC (pointcloud) needs a lot of 3D navigation, almost of point clouds are heavy a,d navigation becomes stressfull and slow,
3 - archicad snaps on all the PC points, instead of being a handy option, this becomes an annoying thing especiually when you try to tretch and modify an element in 3D, then you loose precision...
4 - Archicad treats the point cloud as a global entity, a mass, it can't be cut from all the faces to focus on a single area, slodi element operation can't operate on a PC cos it's heavy) there is an option to show the points relevant to the actual story but it's not enough for remodelling, beacause remodelling a PC needs 3D navigation more than 2D projection.

the PC is a good option to take measures, especially when we talk about big buildings, industrial buildings where we should have information about pipes, ducts, machines occupancy etc...

last year, i wrote here about this topic ( taking measurements ) but in another way,
BIMx is a good tool installed on a tablet, with a laser meter, it can do the job :
1 - configure the tool on BIMx , it may be a wall, a window, a door, an object anchor point,
2 - take the measure with the laser meter,
3 - BIMx draw the wall with exact lenght

the created plan is parametric, so you can check your measurements with triangulation technique to correct the cleated plan,

in this way, instead of taking measures and remodel, we can model on terrain.
AMD Ryzen 9 3900X, 32 GB RAM, RTX 3080 10 GB

Archicad 23

Windows 10 professional

https://www.behance.net/Nuance-Architects

Steve Jepson
Advisor
Is there any Trimble software that does what ReCap, Cyclone Register, PointFuse can do with a point cloud?
Everything related to high quality point clouds seems really expensive to me. And just a .e57 before tweaking is just about useless in ArchiCAD. Just photographs and/or some photogrammetry might be just as useful in ArchiCAD and the .gsm you get with an .e57.

ArchiCAD 25 4013 USA - Windows 10 Pro 64x - Dell 7720 64 GB 2400MHz ECC - Xeon E3 1535M v6 4.20GHz - (2) 1TB M.2 PCIe Class 50 SSD's - 17.3" UHD IPS (3840x2160) - Nvidia Quadro P5000 16GB GDDR5 - Maxwell Studio/Render 5.2.1.49- Multilight 2 - Adobe Acrobat Pro

Karol Argasinski
Participant
Hi Guys,

I can totally recommend PointCab software as well as BIMm plugin for ARCHICAD. Those two things are powerful extensions and they are my daily to-go software. If you are interested in getting more, here is a webinar that I humbly helld:

My office is based on FARO products. We use PointCab as our main software (we register and create specific data for clients in it (you can say it is post-production), as well as prepare pointclouds for ARCHICAD, so it is one tool, for the whole workflow.

If you are interested in presentation please PM me or contact via my email: biuro@bimfaktoria.pl I'll be happy to talk to you

Stay healthy!
OPENBIM does works!
------------------------------------------
Currently: ArchiCAD 22/23/24
AMD Ryzen 7 3700X
32GB RAM
GeForce RTX 2070
Windows 10 Pro
------------------------------------------
http://www.bimfaktoria.pl/

Karol Argasinski
Participant
Dear Steve,

If you are Cyclone User, I definitely recommend you to check PointCab. It is a great replacement for all the software that you are talking about.

We switch from workflow with FARO SCENE + ReCap + Bentley + meshlab, to PointCab + additional software. It works for us since ARCHICAD v19. Great software, great performance, no issues, works on workstations like Lenovo X1 (ultrabook grade) to PC workstations (so in matter of fact, ANY computer will do).

If you have any questions, let me know,

Best,
Karol
Steve wrote:
Is there any Trimble software that does what ReCap, Cyclone Register, PointFuse can do with a point cloud?
Everything related to high quality point clouds seems really expensive to me. And just a .e57 before tweaking is just about useless in ArchiCAD. Just photographs and/or some photogrammetry might be just as useful in ArchiCAD and the .gsm you get with an .e57.
OPENBIM does works!
------------------------------------------
Currently: ArchiCAD 22/23/24
AMD Ryzen 7 3700X
32GB RAM
GeForce RTX 2070
Windows 10 Pro
------------------------------------------
http://www.bimfaktoria.pl/

Steve Jepson
Advisor
So to use the point clouds efficiently in ArchiCAD the PointCab solutions could be $10,300 + US Dollars. I think you can rent the PointCab software for use with ArchiCAD for about $700.00 per month. Way tooo much for me to implement unless I were using it for some very big contracts. It seems to me that the the software necessary to just work with the point clouds is more expensive than the BIM software that would be used for the entire project. https://shop.pointcab-software.com/Bundles_1

I don't know how much the FARO AS-BUILT software is.
https://www.faro.com/products/construction-bim/faro-as-built/

The advantage I see to PointCab is that it is not so tightly linked with specific scanner your using as some of the others, and is much more compatible with ArchiCAD since it has an ArchiCAD specific plug-in. But still, I think it's pretty expensive to implement point clouds into your business unless you use them on every project and they are big enough to make it feasible. I think the only way I could invest in it would be to quit what I am doing and go into the scanning business. Probably more profitable.

ArchiCAD 25 4013 USA - Windows 10 Pro 64x - Dell 7720 64 GB 2400MHz ECC - Xeon E3 1535M v6 4.20GHz - (2) 1TB M.2 PCIe Class 50 SSD's - 17.3" UHD IPS (3840x2160) - Nvidia Quadro P5000 16GB GDDR5 - Maxwell Studio/Render 5.2.1.49- Multilight 2 - Adobe Acrobat Pro

Laszlo Nagy
Community Admin
Community Admin
Karol,

I have a question I would like to have your input on.
What are your experiences with the Archicad Add-On of PointCAB? I have been doing some modeling based on Point Clouds for a German company in the last few months, and when I asked them about it, they said that the PointCAB Add-On is not very useful in Archicad, it does not create elements accurately enough, or something like that, so they are not using it.

Could you share your experiences with this Add-On?
....................................................................................................
Laszlo Nagy, Lead Moderator, Community Admin
Get Archicad Tips at https://twitter.com/laszlonagy
AMD Ryzen 1700X CPU, 48 GB RAM, NVidia GTX 1060 6GB, 500 GB NVMe SSD
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Loving Archicad since 1995

Karol Argasinski
Participant
LaszloNagy wrote:
Karol,

I have a question I would like to have your input on.
What are your experiences with the Archicad Add-On of PointCAB? I have been doing some modeling based on Point Clouds for a German company in the last few months, and when I asked them about it, they said that the PointCAB Add-On is not very useful in Archicad, it does not create elements accurately enough, or something like that, so they are not using it.

Could you share your experiences with this Add-On?


Laszlo,
Sure thing. First of all, my office (BIMfaktoria) works with pointcloud daily. We use PointCab as well add-on (Points4BIMm) on daily matter.
On the screenshot you can see wooden structure for heritage building. Scan with one of our FARO unit took 2 hours (color) and making model of it took approx. 4 hours with PointCab and add-on. Can't imagine how long it would take to create all those columns and beams without it (keep in mind that this is as-is state, so all slanted elements are actually slanted as they are in reality).
You can use those tools not only for beams and colums of course, it can be used with any building elements in ARCHICAD. I wouldn't say it is not very useful, I would rather say that's another level of using pointclouds in ARCHICAD/BIM

Best regards,
Karol
OPENBIM does works!
------------------------------------------
Currently: ArchiCAD 22/23/24
AMD Ryzen 7 3700X
32GB RAM
GeForce RTX 2070
Windows 10 Pro
------------------------------------------
http://www.bimfaktoria.pl/

Laszlo Nagy
Community Admin
Community Admin
Karol,

Thanks for your feedback. So the Add-On is useful. Maybe those guys just have not figured out yet how to utilize it the right way.
....................................................................................................
Laszlo Nagy, Lead Moderator, Community Admin
Get Archicad Tips at https://twitter.com/laszlonagy
AMD Ryzen 1700X CPU, 48 GB RAM, NVidia GTX 1060 6GB, 500 GB NVMe SSD
2x28" (2560x1440), WIN10 PRO ENG, AC20-AC25
Loving Archicad since 1995

Steve Jepson
Advisor
What do you point cloud users think about PointFuse?
I assume that a program like this is essential if you are transforming point clouds into a Building Information Model. https://pointfuse.com/

I am thinking the Leica BLK2GO with PointFuse would be a good system for Scan to BIM process.
Not sure how well the 3d files will import into ArchiCAD. I tried to import a slab from PointFuse but the point cloud sees too crude to be of much use. It was from a FARO S .ef7 file. That file looks a lot better in PointFuse than it does in Recap.
However, I don't expect to find anything better than the PointCab software for working with ArchiCAD. https://bimm-gmbh.de/download/

Does the PoitCab add-on for ArchiCAD need to run in ArchiCAD 23 ? or is there an add-on for ArchiCAD 24 ?

ArchiCAD 25 4013 USA - Windows 10 Pro 64x - Dell 7720 64 GB 2400MHz ECC - Xeon E3 1535M v6 4.20GHz - (2) 1TB M.2 PCIe Class 50 SSD's - 17.3" UHD IPS (3840x2160) - Nvidia Quadro P5000 16GB GDDR5 - Maxwell Studio/Render 5.2.1.49- Multilight 2 - Adobe Acrobat Pro

Steve Jepson
Advisor
Are there any other programs like PointCab that do not require that the point could be imported into the BIM software?

ArchiCAD 25 4013 USA - Windows 10 Pro 64x - Dell 7720 64 GB 2400MHz ECC - Xeon E3 1535M v6 4.20GHz - (2) 1TB M.2 PCIe Class 50 SSD's - 17.3" UHD IPS (3840x2160) - Nvidia Quadro P5000 16GB GDDR5 - Maxwell Studio/Render 5.2.1.49- Multilight 2 - Adobe Acrobat Pro

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