Working Rhino with Archicad

[rm]

i’m coming at this with very little knowledge about Rhino. Often I have to use SketchUp up to create profiles or special shapes that are just too hard to do with the built-in ArchiCad Morph tool. However, there is occasion that I can’t model what I want to even in Sketchup, because it requires additional add-ons that I’m just not willing to invest in.

Been watching a lot of videos on YouTube about Rhino lately. I didn’t realize that Rhino adoption for both schematic design and design development in architecture firms was a world wide thing. I guess I’ve been in the dark on this.

Of further surprise, there seems to be no easy round-trip ArchiCad to Rhino to ArchiCad with native Rhino file formats, please correct me if I’m wrong. Yet they’re at least 20 other design programs out there that have that kind of connection. Of course Revit plays nicely with Rhino.

I can’t understand, why Graphisoft has not made this a priority, given the proliferation of Rhino being used in most of the prestigious large architecture firms in the world, not to mention college students are coming out of architecture schools knowing how to use Rhino.

Is this another case of Graphisoft being caught asleep at the wheel?

[Laszlo Nagy]

You can use the Archicad-Grasshopper Connection to bring Archicad geometry into Rhino. You can then even deconstruct those geometries to use them as the basis upon which you can create new geometry in Rhino.

[rm]

Thank you Lazo. 

Is this bi-directional? Meaning, can you bring Rhino files back into ArchiCad to manipulate?

[Eduardo Rolon · Accepted solution]

References:

https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Modeling/Grasshopper-Archicad-Live-Connection/ta-p/304037

https://www.graphisoft.com/downloads/addons/interoperability/rhino

[mikas]

Can't say it's fully bidirectional, maybe only in some aspects. GH generated elements are locked by default in AC. You can open the lock status and change things of the unlocked elements in AC. Thay will change.

If you then go and edit GH definitons of those said elements in GH again, and live link does it's job, it will over ride what needs to be overriden. You can have a material change for example go through, but the geometry will be straightened out according to GH maths and rules. Your change of for example column tilt angle won't stay there. Your change in AC geometry versus that of GH mathematical rules will contradict. GH wins here if the link is active still.

I am a pure novice with this, sorry, but just tried that one out mentioned above, out of curiosity. Changed tilt, changed material. Then upped column count 5 pcs. Link made it's thing, material intact, column in new position according to GH rules.

 

 

You can have input from ArchiCAD though, it's not that there isn't any bidirectionality at all. Just in terms of what is possible. And you deconstruct AC elements and make use of those sub-data types.

Kind of a Chicken and Egg problem I think, something like that maybe, I don't know? You can't make an arithmetical/algorhitmical definition, transform it to ArchiCAD objects and geometry, then change it in AC and hope it to transform back to Grasshopper as an algorithm and definitions.

I really wish I had more time with. I do think this could be a life saver for ArchiCAD in the long run. You can't replace this for one of your own developed tools quickly enough. ParamO seems fine for simple tasks, thanks for that too. But GH connection being there, it's not that big of an interested, at least to me it's not.

I do realize a lot of quoestions that do arise using the AC-GH link are related to Rhino/Grasshopper more than ArchiCAD itself. Maybe this cross-operation of GH-AC is without a dedicated channel right now, and I understand why that is. It's related to Rhino, Grashopper and ArchiCAD, all three of them. It's just that you probably don't know exactly what's the proper forum to ask your question on.

[rm]

Mikas - 

thank you for your thorough reply. But you are running while I am just crawling here with regard to rhino. 

I’m actually not interested in grasshopper at all. Are you saying that you have to use grasshopper as an intermediary between ArchiCad and rhino and vice versa?

Grasshopper obviously is a graphical interface coding tool. I’m way too far along in my career to have to learn yet one more thing that I’m not going be using for a long time. Coding is not what I got into architecture for.

My soul purpose for wanting to use rhino, is as I originally stated, to create forms or shapes that are just too difficult to do in ArchiCad, Then bring those forms back into ArchiCad.

[mikas]

Sorry I went too far ahead it seams. Rhino elements or element gropups come in as objects to ArchiCAD, and are one way only as far as I have tried can understand it. The lack of usefull parameters restricts the use of converted elements or element groups quite a lot. It's still usefull though, but not that optimized to be an everyday approach to anything considered sustainable workflows. Maybe some other user can prove me wrong though.

It's an oldie here, but I think I can still learn if I have my motivation tuned accordingly to the task. You are right, it's coding. While it is graphically presented coding, it still is coding and mathematics and algorhitms. Not everyone wants to deal with that, perfectly understandable.

I have used Rhino as an intermediate tool too to convert some objects. It's pretty comprehensive in file formats. I still need to learn the tools and commands for creating and handling straight Rhino objects, but it's on the list too. For example Rhino 8 can optimize geometry with new command introduced (ShrinWrap) and that would be great to minimize object sizes imported into ArchiCAD.

Then there is Point Cloud to Mesh conversion. This with Shrinkwrap would have been needed in a project of ours something like 3-4 years ago, a cave as a point cloud needed to be downsized, but it came in just a tad too late for us. Bought it as a service that time, but now would do it myself in Rhino.

I can see Rhino can make any shape there is to imagine and that's great. For me it's the buildability that makes the AC-GH connection the more usable optin. You build with familiar ArchiCAD elements, which can be built and listed in real life too. I get the building materials and composite stuctures to my design documentation and element listings and calculations.

While not exactly on point either, there is this Architectural tool developed for Rhino, VisualARQ. Not going to advetize it here, and I don't think it comes anywhere near to ArchiCAD in documentation at least, but there are a lot of complimentary tools for Rhino. And a lot for Grasshopper too of course, which comes integrated and free with every Rhino.

I have used ArchiCAD for tens of years, and can't switch to anything without sacrificing a lot of efficiency. Not to Rhino either. So I just have to swallow this subscription transition. Not going in that topic any more than that.

I can't say much about complex profiles in Rhino, my profiles can mostly be made in ArchiCAD. It might come into Grasshopper still to move your Rhino creations interactively and purposefully into ArchiCAD. Like making the profile in Rhino, transforming it to a beam in Grasshopper, and then making the path for it to follow.

Long talk and no answer. In my opinion Rhino is a great companion to ArchiCAD, and for me Grasshopper Connection is the most interesting part of it (I guess I am not gonna talk you around to check grasshopper too 😉 )

Sorry to be annoingly repetitive, have a Good Day.