ArchiCAD is dying

[Bruce]

I know that's a controversial subject line, but I believe it's true. Not because I want it to be, but because Autodesk is an advancing monster; ArchiCAD firms are switching to Revit, and Revit-based firms are buying ArchiCAD firms...and switching them to Revit.

ArchiCAD is a great program, but if it keeps going the way it is, I fear it will gradually dwindle until it's finally gone. On a level playing field, it comes out more or less even with Revit (I have done a detailed analysis that has been vetted by Revit experts) - but it's not a level playing field.

In my opinion, Graphisoft needs to do a handful of things to even the odds (yes, I will compare to Revit, as that's the main competition):

1. Rebrand & revamp the UI: CAD is an obsolete term. Even though ArchiCAD was BIM way before the term was even coined, I think the "CAD" in the name does it a disservice. Also, the user interface is old and tired. Should it go to the ribbon? No way. Should it be brought into the 21st century? Absolutely - there are plenty of excellent examples out there. Blender, a free 3D program, is undergoing its second UI redesign in about 5 years. If Blender can do it, Graphisoft can.

2. Introduce type-based elements. At the moment, pretty much everything is instance based. If you place 100 doors 900mm wide throughout the project, you have to select and change every single instance (this is an example, so please don't tell me the workarounds - that misses the point). Essentially, this is extending the attributes database to other objects. This makes project-wide changes so much more consistent, with no fear of missing an element.

3. Easier creation of parametric custom content: A beginner user in Revit can create a basic parametric object by using geometry and dimensions. It is intuitive and accessible. This does have its limits, but GDL is completely inaccessible to any but the advanced user with a programming mind...something architects and drafties generally don't have - otherwise they'd be programmers. A mix of the two would be extremely powerful - maybe an interface similar to Visual Basic, or Grasshopper? Not only for 3D elements, but also for 2D labels.

4. Better labelling & keynote tools: At the moment it's one label per element per view. What if I want to tag more than the ID? What about material, thickness, height etc. Revit is excellent in this regard, and also in the ability to create your label format as specific as you please. Key notes are also critical.

These are only four key improvements that I think are critical. There are many others that I could list, but this post is already too long. I say the above not to criticise ArchiCAD, but to try and help (misguided however it may be).

I could be wrong - I would be happy to be wrong...but the Autodesk monster is advancing...

These changes should be done the Graphisoft way: not to match what Revit does, but to equal and better it.

[arg617]

In my opinion all Nemetschek needs to do is to get public agencies to allow the use of their software.

I'm in NY so I can only speak to what I see here, but agency requirements has quite an influence in software decisions. Want to build a school in NYC? Revit is required! Want to work for DASNY? Revit is required! Working on land owned by the Port Authority? Revit again!

This is a HUGE market. When these agencies require a specific file format anyone who wants to play must fall in line. They end up hiring people with the prerequisite that they know Revit. The employee pool is full of people who know Revit, and this trickles down to the choices smaller firms make (of course it doesn't help that AutoDesk bundles the software in such a way as to practically make Revit a financial no-brainer). Look at BIG - they chose ArchiCAD for their European location but apparently have not made that decision for their NYC location.....it kind of says it all.

I think what we need is someone from Nemetschek to really push the OpenBIM concept to these public agencies. It's the only way...... Once that happens the software will speak for itself.

[Anonymous]

As someone that ran a firm on Archicad since the very early 1990's I can say that I believe the application is the best at doing what it does. Revit is at least 2 cycles behind.

That said, I do believe it is being eliminated from commercial and institutional work. The machine that is AutoDesk has the ability to do what no group of evangelists can..... which is create a "standard".

I sold my firm years ago and am now running an office for a large national firm in the Southwest. My specialty over the entire 28 years of my career is healthcare design and planning. 4 very large hospital clients have recently standardized their "BIM" on Revit. They ask that at the end of each project that the "As Builts" be in both PDF and the Revit Model updated and turned over.

Keep in mind that one of the largest users of ArchiCAD works for a couple of these organizations as well.

This isn't about which one is a better application..... it's about which one is better at providing a service your clients want and making money in the process. AC has no advantage that tips this metric in it's direction anymore.

Aside from the industry moving away from open standards I also have seen a disturbing change in how the company treats it's users. Resellers are long gone and simple things like updating and tracking multiple licenses are things that take weeks to resolve.

I recently was contacted by a "digital collection agency" (through the IT department of my company) about using a "broken" version of AC 18. I own 5 licenses of AC. It seems that after many phone calls etc. to ArchiCAD that someone sniffing the MAC addressed put me in a "bin" with people using versions that were cracked.

Once my info was turned over I was basically criminalized and embarrassed in front of my peers in the firm. It's been resolved but not without significant time and effort on my part (not to mention legal fees). The culprit seems to be a corrupted dongle driver and the trial version of AC18(at least after the lawyers were involved that is what was determined). As someone who has supported the company to the tune of over $300K over the years I was basically treated as a common punk downloading cracked software even in the face of 20 years of yearly upgrades and even being a beta tester back in the day.... including the license upgraded last year.

The biggest casualty is my continued support of the product. Up until this incident I had been using it for conceptual planning and programming before we dumped it into a Revit workflow. No more.

My best guess is that a company that doesn't have the resources to push it's product into the public realm and has begun to treat it's users as "licensees" rather than a community will ultimately fail..... or fade away into being a niche player.

I firmly believe that the product is superior however where the industry winds are blowing (in the US) and the Adobe like approach to customer support and dispute resolution will render AC a niche player or a takeover target IMHO.

[Anonymous]

Hi,

This kind of subject is always difficult. Please treat my opinion as one of many:
1. I agree Revit is the one to make "the standard", whatever it means.
2. I agree Archicad as a tool for achitects is better than Revit

but:

Archicad was the one to lead on innovation layer of cad software and this fact passed away. You can notice this in many places.
Archicad is " just" a very good tool and many architects stick to it cause of that but it is not enough to rule the market these days.

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3. I'm in my middle 30', so in my 10 year long experience I've noticed that most of my friends work in the program they mostly used for students projects at college.
Talented students now do awesome projects on the edge of sculpture-generative architecture and non of them use Archicad.... forget GDL as a generative-design tool.

GDL is sooooo cool and powerful... and soooo useless for normal architects... I belive GDL can become a new standard for parametric architecture and BIM Objects/Components at the same time.

Redesign GDL and make it like Grasshopper inside AC

Few of them can afford buying educational license, though its pretty cheap.

Release free student license.

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4. None of my friends-architects use Archicad for making competiton projects.... it requires to much effort for quick 3D drawing-rendering-redesigning-rendering workflow <--- this might change if they switch to AC18.

Make it ease to work on concept design -> easy conversion from mass modeling to concept elevation/section/plans and back to mass modeling

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5. Since I use AC I've never heard Graphisoft asked me, any of my friends or any other architects I know what are things to be improved in AC.... what do we, basic users, project leaders, cad managers really need.

Ask AC users what they need using local resellers/partners. Making new release suprisses is good for christmass but not for professionals - talk with users.

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6. I work now in a office where 4 on 5 AC users have drafting habits from AC10 and since few years they still think AC is to difficult and they simply don't like it. They don't want to here about changes and upgrades, they call them "toys" (most of those people are over 40 what explains a bit the situation)

Upgrades need free simple 2H lesson for the office to know what is going on. This will create attraction to changes.

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Other minor things:
- there is really, really no reason not to have a tool like "Autocad block" or "Revit family" any more.
No Hotlink Modules with Favorites, "Find" tools and schedules selection can't make a good workaround for the lack of a simple BLOCK.
This is a opinion of every single AC user I know, no matter how advanced he is in using AC and how big the project he works on.
Changing 2000 windows nearly one-by-one in the As-built phase is a nightmare.

Graphisoft, just do "blocks", "families", "types", "components" or whatever you call it and don't ask why... just do it, and do it smart !

- do stairs useable and simple. I don't know to many people using AC stairs
and none of them even think of trying to figure out why they don't use it.
"Stair Maker" is a tool from stone-age, balustrades look like from hobbit house, after setting the 8th pen in the stair settings I just ....... aaaa.... never mind.

Make stairs easy.

- do links and relations (temporary locking dimensions) like on Revit so moving one wall can move a whole bunch of other stuff sticked to it.
Projects are now very complex, everything is related to everything and manualy changing the design of certain spaces is painful.
AC Marque Tool is really nice for stretching, but this is not a workaround in most situations. There is no workaround here at the moment.

Do relations between objects


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And finally:

Don't be so 90' .... golden age of AC glory as first-BIM is gone so be more cool, stylish and good looking..... not only with the interface of AC but also with the whole look of your company, marketing, website, events, workshops and so on....

Hire the marketing guy from Redbull 😉

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Hope my opinion matters and will help.
Best wishes to Graphisoft and all AC users.

Best regards,
Filip S

[Laszlo Nagy]

You should make Wish posts out of several of these points. Then people can vote on them so both you and Graphisoft will know how much each of these points you bring up are supported by other users.
ArchiCAD-Talk is one of the main ways you can communicate your wishes and suggestions to Graphisoft developers.

[Aaron Bourgoin]

Insert GRAPHISOFT logo here!

[Anonymous]

philips wrote:

And finally:

Don't be so 90' .... golden age of AC glory as first-BIM is gone so be more cool, stylish and good looking..... not only with the interface of AC but also with the whole look of your company, marketing, website, events, workshops and so on....
Hire the marketing guy from Redbull 😉

Ha, when the marketing is over, the only thing people remember is who came first and that's Mercedes. they would do better hiring the best mechanical engineers.

[Anonymous]

In reply to Phillips quote:

Yes this style of "Sculpitecture", Architecture is being used more often for parts of buildings and whole buildings nowadays.

From a younger persons perspective I can see where you are coming from and to service a program that can do both ArchiCAD and Grasshopper together would not work today. That's why ArchiCAD is heading in the inter operative BIM direction and all the 3d model conversion problems that go with it.

Things can change though as in the future it is possible that someone will come up a program that can do both in the native program?

[Matt Balaam]

philips wrote:
5. Since I use AC I've never heard Graphisoft asked me, any of my friends or any other architects I know what are things to be improved in AC.... what do we, basic users, project leaders, cad managers really need.

I have a catch-up meeting with Graphisoft Australia every 6 months to give feedback on bugs, make feature requests, get a heads up on what's in the pipeline (at least the tidbits that they are allowed to give away). What's even better is that they contact me to arrange the next meeting rather than me having to chase them!

I have had many bugs fixed and a few new features introduced to the software because of these meetings.

philips wrote:
6. I work now in a office where 4 on 5 AC users have drafting habits from AC10 and since few years they still think AC is to difficult and they simply don't like it. They don't want to here about changes and upgrades, they call them "toys" (most of those people are over 40 what explains a bit the situation)

When each new version comes out Graphisoft Australia run a one day workshop on all of the changes and how they work. It's free to select customers (not sure how much it costs if you aren't on select) and is great to learn how the new features can be utilised.

[Laszlo Nagy]

Did you guys know that Nemetschek is now a billion euro company? (almost 10 million shares at over 120 euros apiece):

http://www.tenlinks.com/news/nemetschek-dividend-up-23-to-euro-1-60-per-share/

Its share price nearly TRIPLED in the last two years.

http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/NEM:GR/chart

When a product is part of a billion euro company that is growing nicely and when a product is one of the things driving that growth, that product (and the company developing it) is not dying, at least in my book.

[Anonymous]

Laszlo,
Not to be negative but blackberry was in the same boat.