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Sustainable design
About EcoDesigner, Energy Evaluation, Life Cycle Assessment, etc.

Archicad 16 and PHPP?

Anonymous
Not applicable
Hi everyone,
I'm playing for the first time with Archicad 16 and I'm looking for the button to export data to the PHPP: where is it?

Thanks!

Enrico
54 REPLIES 54
Miklos Sved
Graphisoft Alumni
Graphisoft Alumni
Enrico wrote:
As far as the free version of ED:

From what you are writing, I understand "EDbasic" is not validated according to any standard, therefore its output is worth nothing. It has been a commercial move of GS to include it for free in AC16.

In your experience (since I guess, you are working to develope it, right?), what is the error margin between "EDbasic" and ED*?
Many of our critics say that, but I strongly disagree with you guys regarding this topic. I usually answer this with the following metaphor: in high school at gym class there are two kind of kids: Most only do the push-ups when the teacher's watching. They're only doing the exercise to pass the class. Then there are some kids who do the push-ups for themselves - to get fitter, stronger. They don't care if the teacher's watching or not. It's the same with energy calculation. Most designers only do it to produce the required papers, but there are some who do it to actually design better buildings. Earlier versions of EcoDesigner and the Energy Evaluation feature in AC16 targets this (unfortunately smaller) group.

We have never found a case where EcoDesigner fails it's original purpose: comparative evaluation. Every time you improve the building, the result gets better. It's not for calculating the actual energy consumption - but yet again, none of the presently available high end simulation tools can do that for every building in every situation, either. There are simply too many variables (usage patterns, unexpected local climate patterns, natural currents, unforeseen HVAC behavior etc). Therefore, all standards execute some sort of performance rating after the energy consumption calculation - to put the result in perspective (compare it with a baseline case, local average, minimum required etc).

Of course, as a sustainable design expert, I bet you already are familiar with all this. Soon, GS'll release a high-end, certified simulation tool to satisfy our customers who require standard compliance, but in my opinion, the basic Energy Evaluation tool is well capable of doing most of the work that the detailed version can, but in a much more simple, convenient and easy-to-understand way. You don't need multiple thermal block simulation to evaluate single family homes, especially if they don't contain high-tech sustainable design features. You don't need a cannon to shoot a bird, so to speak.

Also, most people wholeheartedly believe that the local standard calculation method used in their region is always right. Let's face it: in most European countries the old, simplified, single thermal block manual estimation method is still legal. We all know that it's only statistical approximation - lightyears behind Energy Evaluation's one-step mathematics. Still, our users keep measuring our solution up to this, because the standard "must always be right". From the scientific point of view that's funny, from our software sales' point of view it's not, unfortunately.
Miklos Sved
Graphisoft Product Manager
Miklos Sved
Graphisoft Alumni
Graphisoft Alumni
Enrico wrote:
The more I hear about it, the more I am looking forward to try it.

You mentioned the 2D thermal bridges analysis integrated with AC detail tool (excellent!):

- Is it going to be validated according to ISO 10211, with air gap resistance calculated according to ISO 6946?

- What about ISO10077 for windows?

- Is the heat exchange with the ground going to be calculated according to EN13370?
The functionality mentioned above are handled by the VIP-Core kernel and thus have been developed by StruSoft. I must, therefore, consult StruSoft before I can answer your questions regarding compliance status details of these modules.
- Even more importantly: is ED* going to be able to run calculations to estimate internal design temperature (according to ISO13788), to evaluate risk of condensation and mold?
No.
I'm asking this because in the next month or two we are planning to purchase a software package to calculate ISO10211/ISO13788 and ISO10077 details. This package is alone something like €1500. Having a better idea of the validation of this 2D calculation tool, as the overall cost and ETA, may help us avoid buying other softwares.

Any chance future versions of Archicad are going to allow import of custom window/door profile form manufacturers?
No.
What about shading from surrounding building?
If surroundings are included in the PLN in 3D, our model-based solar irradiation study sees them. We also see surrounding trees and factor in the fact that deciduous species drop their leaves in the winter.
It's a shame the MEP modeler is not going to be integrated right away. In my opinion, this is definitely something to consider for future development.
I agree with you on that.
Again, thank you very much for answering all these questions!
It's been my pleasure! I hope we'll have the chance to talk more soon, on the occasion of the upcoming EcoDesigner* Beta Test.
Miklos Sved
Graphisoft Product Manager
Miklos Sved
Graphisoft Alumni
Graphisoft Alumni
Barry wrote:
If Enrico isn't aready then he needs to be on the Alpha/Beta test team for ED*
Barry.
Hi Barry,

Enrico is definitely on our list for the beta! 🙂

Regards,

Miklos Sved
Miklos Sved
Graphisoft Product Manager
Barry Kelly
Moderator
Miklos wrote:
Barry wrote:
If Enrico isn't aready then he needs to be on the Alpha/Beta test team for ED*
Barry.
Hi Barry,

Enrico is definitely on our list for the beta! 🙂

Regards,

Miklos Sved
Awesome
I am sure we will all benefit from Enricos input if he accepts the offer.

Thanks,
Barry.
One of the forum moderators.
Versions 6.5 to 27
Dell XPS- i7-6700 @ 3.4Ghz, 16GB ram, GeForce GTX 960 (2GB), Windows 10
Lenovo Thinkpad - i7-1270P 2.20 GHz, 32GB RAM, Nvidia T550, Windows 11
Anonymous
Not applicable
About comfort design in warm, humid climates, I agree that humidity control is the most difficult part of the job. This does not depend whether you are designing a passive house or not.

The evaluation of condensation inside the building structure has to be studied carefully, specially in air-conditioned buildings.

In warm humid climates, comfort conditions are best achieved via natural ventilation, hence my question about CFD in ED*. In the long run, I think ED* will have to have some sort of CFD modeling. As far as I know, at the moment not even established energy modeling softwares such as TAS have a complete CFD modeling.

The climate we operate in, in the Pianura Padana valley, is considered "warm continental": cold and humid in winter, hot and disgustingly humid in summer. It is probably one of the most tricky climates to design in, because it requires full-on insulation for winter, and a quite refined passive design for summer.

As I said, humidity control is the most difficult part of the comfort design for a warm humid climate. Where we operate, natural ventilation in summer is non-existent. We provide a combination of night-time mechanical ventilation (with a careful assessment of the inlet air moisture content, to prevent the system from pumping more humidity in); sometimes air dehumidification; good old ceiling fans and clay based plasters (to absorb air moisture during the day). It is difficult, and it really depends on the surrounding conditions of each site.
Anonymous
Not applicable
As far as the rest:

Calculating design indoor temperature (ISO13788) is extremely important in building renovation projects, where you cannot completely "fix" existing thermal bridges. Since building renovation is the future of European construction industry, I think you should highly consider this for future developments.

Importing custom window profiles from manufacturers, and calculating Uf value (ISO10077) is probably not a top priority for most designers. However, this data is needed to calculate the intallation Psi value, which is very important for passive house design. How is ED* going to deal with the installation Psi value? Can it be entered manually?

Shading from surrounding bldgs and trees: very good news!
Anonymous
Not applicable
As far as testing the Beta version, I've never done anything like it so I don't really know what it involves.
Barry Kelly
Moderator
Enrico wrote:
As far as testing the Beta version, I've never done anything like it so I don't really know what it involves.
You will get to try the software before it's official release.
You can then test for bugs and report any problems and suggestions back to Graphisoft so that can hopefully add it to the software before the official release (or for a future release).
Pretty much what you are doing now but you will have the software to play with.
You will be under a non-disclosure agreement so you won't be able to share any of your discoveries with anyone except Graphisoft until the software is released.
I am sure Graphisoft will explain more when they invite you to test.
Barry.
One of the forum moderators.
Versions 6.5 to 27
Dell XPS- i7-6700 @ 3.4Ghz, 16GB ram, GeForce GTX 960 (2GB), Windows 10
Lenovo Thinkpad - i7-1270P 2.20 GHz, 32GB RAM, Nvidia T550, Windows 11
Anonymous
Not applicable
Just to add my voice to the disappointment that the Export to PHPP function has disappeared!

Regards
Matt
Anonymous
Not applicable
OK, I have now had a chance to read all of this thread, lots of info and thoughts. I am pretty gutted that PHPP export has been removed from ED not because it is more /less detailed but because it is one (of the many) recognised standards in UK which means the output can be compared with other peoples, in particular with Building Control and 3rd party certification standards.

I have really enjoyed using ED in the last 3 years, there are areas which are too simple but it does do what Miklos says, which is help decide which option / built form is best. I think linking materials to thermal resistance is great and I also support Enricos idea of embodied carbon entry. I have been doing this calc through a schedule exported to Excel then inserting numbers manually.

Another tweak I would add is the ability to output the results such as energy demand etc as Autotext to include in text / notes etc.

My main frustration is the lack of sophistication in the M&E description and (as mentioned elsewhere above) lack of ability to finesse the uses (although I hear the repost of learn XML!) and would urge further work in these areas to bring them up to the same standard as the thermal modelling. I don't like the new interface, the single dialogue was pretty efficient and easy to run through and check all the settings before running a calc. I am also having a bit of trouble with the weather files but I suspect thats me being too geeky for the software.

Integrated thermal bridge modelling would be genius as the current software we use is pretty tricky to use.
Daylighting calculation would be great too although we don't do very many of those types of calcs so from our point of view this could be quite simplistic.

From our point of view, probably like Enrico, we have lots of different bits of software / techniques to do these things separately. When I buy AC and pay for Ecodesigner (weather its 'free' or extra) I choose to stop paying for other bits of software that do the same job, the problem is if Ecodesigner does not do that job as well we have lost that money. To go back to PHPP export, we have stopped paying for SAP + SBEM software to buy Ecodesigner, we must be able to translate the results into some form of comparable calculation or we will still have to keep on the existing software and end up doing the calc twice.

Hope that all makes sense!
Cheers
Matt
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