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Archicad 25

Narska
Booster
Where can I find a list of what new goodies we can expect in the next version of archicad?
Tomasz Mlynarski
New York based Architect
184 REPLIES 184

kittonian wrote:
I'm not going to parrot all the other people saying how lackluster this update is, but I have to say that after playing around with it for two days now, it's just frustratingly awful.......
So,..it's underwhelming.. ...AND buggy.
Nice.
So lovely to hear.

/s
kittonian wrote:
Buy CI and integrate all of their tools, especially cabinets and electrical (no, the new cabinet tool is not sufficient to replace CI)
Make stairs and railings a lot more user friendly. Sure, I get what I need (eventually) but it's time consuming and a serious hassle
And while they're at it, they might as well just buy out the 3DMD Rail tool guy's library or just outright hire him to take over their rail tool dossier.
They're so much more intuitive to use and vastly more extensive (And less of a headache to adjust) than the new built-in rail tool.

It's a pity that it seems like he was forced to stopped developing it a couple of versions ago when GS released the version with their own new railing tool (circa ver. 21?)

Why it is that 3rd party plugin developers can make tools that are easier and more intuitive to use than the guys with the entire company's R&D and software development budget, is beyond me.


kittonian wrote:
...I could go on and on, but you get the point. AC is supposedly designed by architects for architects, or at least that was the slogan years ago. Not sure what has happened over the last few years, but it seems it's more about taking people's money and doing the least amount possible, rather than putting out serious software for professionals.

Again, these are my findings after less than two full days of use. How this got through beta is astonishing.
With an airtight iron-clad NDA, I would imagine.
I reckon that's a big part of the problem here.

We know now that beta testers don't have much say or sway in the testing process to actually voice their opinions, or if they do, they likely go the same way that any of our opinions here go.

Podolsky
Mentor
This thread turned into bazaar of unsatisfied people. More and more. It's getting more and more boring to read. Maybe ArchiCAD 25 is not so bad version, as bad this thread is turning in. Maybe it worth to start another thread called 'positive reviews of version 25'?

jl_lt
Enthusiast
Richard wrote:


On a positive note, I won't have to change my workflow for AC25 or learn any new commands!
thats the attitude!

truth be told, and as i said before, i really dont need new features for the work we do today; any new thing is icing on the cake. Sure, everone have different needs, and yes, many things can be better, but Archicad with its limitations is still far better than what the rest offer. Or so i like to think.

But the other companies are working. HARD. Even Autodesk. Im not saying graphisoft is not working, but their efforts seem diluted and unfocused at best, thats clear now. i think all the negative rants here are not so much about lack of new features per se but about the uncertainity for consolidation and medium term survival of the software everyone here loves. Graphisoft needs to get their act together now.

i have said many times before and sometimes have been dismissed, but i will still insist: we as users, need to somehow distill, prioritize, and stablish a clear vision of what we want and most importantly, let it be known, LOUDLY, in a more formal way than the wishlist. If we dont do this, in a few years instead of wishing for a better wall tool we might be left wishing for Archicad to still exist.
https://www.grupogennova.com

jl_lt
Enthusiast
Podolsky wrote:
This thread turned into bazaar of unsatisfied people. More and more. It's getting more and more boring to read. Maybe ArchiCAD 25 is not so bad version, as bad this thread is turning in. Maybe it worth to start another thread called 'positive reviews of version 25'?
now it would be fun to see how many reviews that thread gets
https://www.grupogennova.com

Sam Wheatley
Participant
Richard wrote:
This was one of the most underwhelming upgrades I've encountered from Graphisoft in the past 25 years. For a sole-practitioner architect, I can find very little of benefit. Structural analytical models do not benefit me, nor do purported improvements to interoperability with Revit. Other features are uncompleted, half-baked, or not even worth being mentioned as a Version "feature." ("New Along Chord stair construction geometry method" as a primary marketed improvement of stairs? Really?) Maybe this is all required to remove Revit-objections to buying Archicad; I don't know.

The one feature that might have had some benefit is the rework of the kitchen cabinets. But there aren't even as many cabinet door panel options as there were in the last version, and the ones that are there are just weird. (I've never seen a 3 or 4-panel cabinet door in the real world.) Fortunately, the Ci Tools cabinet tool can fill in. Oh, wait, it can't because it isn't even available for AC25. Nor is the Twinmotion Direct Link. There seems to have been very little concern that primary 3rd party add-ons were keeping up development in time for the new release.

On a positive note, I won't have to change my workflow for AC25 or learn any new commands!
I responded to this yesterday, but me bad I must have done something wrong, and it wasn't posted.
I also feel this is if not the worst releases ever, very close to it. I can not put a positive spin on this. Agreed best part is the kitchen cabinets. I use CI Door and Window Builder, because the AC ones out of the box are so poor. Even though I have both paid for ArchiCad and Cadimage tools, they don't work yet with AC25. I was told they won't be available until the first AC25 patch(who knows when that will be). So for me AC25 is worthless.
ArchiCad 24 US
IMac Pro
iMac 3.2 GHz Intel Core i5 16 GB
NIVIDIA GeForce GT 755M 1024 MB

henryL
Contributor
jl_lt wrote:
i have said many times before and sometimes have been dismissed, but i will still insist: we as users, need to somehow distill, prioritize, and stablish a clear vision of what we want and most importantly, let it be known, LOUDLY, in a more formal way than the wishlist. If we dont do this, in a few years instead of wishing for a better wall tool we might be left wishing for Archicad to still exist.
Totally agree with you jl_lt.
We really love archicad, our architectural design software, and we are all lamenting and ranting here, but that's not the right attitude.
Revit user wrote an open letter to Autodesk and a web site https://letters-to-autodesk.com/. I suggest to do the same.
As jl_lt said we have to send a more formal message to Graphisoft and Nemetschek.
Are we going to do it?
How do we organize ourself ?
How do we choose our main needs?
Who has the skills and time to write the letter?
Who has the skills and time to build up a site?
Who can spread the initiative to bigger firms?

Podolsky
Mentor
henryL wrote:
Totally agree with you jl_lt.
We really love archicad, our architectural design software, and we are all lamenting and ranting here, but that's not the right attitude.
Revit user wrote an open letter to Autodesk and a web site https://letters-to-autodesk.com/. I suggest to do the same.
As jl_lt said we have to send a more formal message to Graphisoft and Nemetschek.
Are we going to do it?
How do we organize ourself ?
How do we choose our main needs?
Who has the skills and time to write the letter?
Who has the skills and time to build up a site?
Who can spread the initiative to bigger firms?
Maybe it worth at first to open just new tread on this forum with open letter to Graphisoft? Don't be bothered of thinking building web-site for that. As about initiative - very simple - anyone, who it is thinking - if not me, then who will do it - can take an initiative to do something. Rest - who are waiting until someone else will do it - most likely able only to complain and make unnecessary noise.
Lets take this unsuccessful version for better future - try to establish better communication between users wishes and developers vision, get better responds from Headquarter (for example why nobody from Headquarter jointed this discussion providing some details, answering questions about development; why mostly we have to guess what is going on or what is going to happen?).
So, lets not fall all together into rabbit hole of total negativity, showing to the whole world that ArchiCAD users are turning into Prozac generation. Revit users will laugh on us.

mikas
Advocate
I would pay our monthly/yearly euros of SSA licence for our 9 pieces of AC software happily only for getting better stability and better speed. New faetures can come when they are ready, not necessarily yearly at all.

Downloaded the AC25 software as a tryout version, but as usual, fully working FIN version coming a little late. The language barrier it is. This time it's gonna be a lot quicker FIN-launch than what those the latest years have been, so a big Thank You to our local distributor and co-partner.
AC25, Rhino6/7+Grasshopper, TwinMotionMac Pro 6,1 E5-1650v2-3,5GHz/128GB/eGPU:6800XT/11.5.1 • HP Z440 E5-1650v3/256GB/RVII/W10Pro

Podolsky
Mentor
Shall I start drafting Open letter to Graphisoft / Nemetschek? I've got what to say. If someone is answering 'yes' - then I do. Otherwise I can't be bothered anymore.

jl_lt
Enthusiast
me sez, lets rock!

i think the main obstacle is how do find consensus between users that want ArchiCAD to become a parametric nurbs modeller and users that just need better cabinet and dimensioning tools. both noble goals, but one more feasible than the other
https://www.grupogennova.com

jl_lt
Enthusiast
henryL wrote:
.
Who can spread the initiative to bigger firms?
actually this one is quite straightforward. in my experience, as long you are not writing there for a job, big offices are quite open in amswering questions, in this case bim questions. im sure some big offices (but not as big as to appear on the archicad box cover) would be glad to participate in something like this as it would benefit them directly.
https://www.grupogennova.com

Podolsky
Mentor
Simple, guyz. First - drafting the letter here. Anyone can then 'answer with quote', delete
marks and edit the text. Text does not belong to anyone and is creative common. After month or two of active editing and discussions - send the text to big ArchiCAD firms. Anyone who has access to them - can try to email them. They answering - good. Local distributors can be involved too.
If the whole world community will show proper activity to that - you will get the letter and results.
Because otherwise this endless complain of angry users, that currently happens, is boring and not productive.

"Okey, will go make a phone call to my GP and ask prescription of antidepressants. Just looked to the new version of ArchiCAD"

Anonymous
Not applicable
I think the better idea is to start crowfunding project: new ArchiCAD with all functionality we want.
Do we need 1 Million € for the programmers?

Compare Photoshop with Pixelmator Pro...

Podolsky
Mentor
Mat wrote:
I think the better idea is to start crowfunding project: new ArchiCAD with all functionality we want.
Do we need 1 Million € for the programmers?

Compare Photoshop with Pixelmator Pro...
Yeh. Or ask Google or Amazon to launch development of new software for architecture and construction, because these dinosaurs Nemetschek and Autodesk cannot manage anymore in development modern software and stack somewhere on the edge of XX and XIX century. Seriously - Silicon Valley would manage that situation quickly.

Laszlo Nagy
Community Admin
Community Admin
Podolsky wrote:
Yeah. Or ask Google or Amazon to launch the development of new software for architecture and construction, because these dinosaurs Nemetschek and Autodesk cannot manage anymore the development of modern software and are stuck somewhere on the edge of XX and XIX centuries. Seriously - Silicon Valley would manage that situation quickly.

Yeah, just like Katerra did? The Silicon Valley preconstruction company that wanted to disrupt the whole construction industry then went bankrupt after burning through billions of dollars?

https://www.architectmagazine.com/technology/katerras-2-billion-legacy_o
....................................................................................................
Laszlo Nagy, Lead Moderator, Community Admin
Get Archicad Tips at https://twitter.com/laszlonagy
AMD Ryzen 1700X CPU, 48 GB RAM, NVidia GTX 1060 6GB, 500 GB NVMe SSD
2x28" (2560x1440), WIN10 PRO ENG, AC20-AC25
Loving Archicad since 1995

Podolsky
Mentor
LaszloNagy wrote:
Podolsky wrote:
Yeah. Or ask Google or Amazon to launch the development of new software for architecture and construction, because these dinosaurs Nemetschek and Autodesk cannot manage anymore the development of modern software and are stuck somewhere on the edge of XX and XIX centuries. Seriously - Silicon Valley would manage that situation quickly.

Yeah, just like Katerra did? The Silicon Valley preconstruction company that wanted to disrupt the whole construction industry then went bankrupt after burning through billions of dollars?

https://www.architectmagazine.com/technology/katerras-2-billion-legacy_o
This is interesting. Do you know guys, that Google and Amazon launched programs of providing affordable housing in USA? Maybe it is not related directly in developing AEC software but just investing money directly in construction, but important that they started to think about - where people will live in the future. Because we cannot live in the war fields all the time, surrounded by amazing gadgets with Internet from space.

Anonymous
Not applicable
Gábor Bojár has started ArchiCAD project as Radar CH in 1984 in Hungary- with a few resourses. So may be in 2021 it is possible to start something similar or even better- over crowfounding.

Katerra is bad example- they were not strictly software company.

Podolsky
Mentor
LaszloNagy wrote:
Podolsky wrote:
Yeah. Or ask Google or Amazon to launch the development of new software for architecture and construction, because these dinosaurs Nemetschek and Autodesk cannot manage anymore the development of modern software and are stuck somewhere on the edge of XX and XIX centuries. Seriously - Silicon Valley would manage that situation quickly.

Yeah, just like Katerra did? The Silicon Valley preconstruction company that wanted to disrupt the whole construction industry then went bankrupt after burning through billions of dollars?

https://www.architectmagazine.com/technology/katerras-2-billion-legacy_o
Okey, so what article is saying. 'There is no reason why company like Katerra to fail. It's not because ideas were wrong, it's because execution was wrong.' Kattera was construction company, that produced buildings on factories, had the whole supply chain and later asked Autodesk to write software for them, called Apollo. So it's not exactly AEC software development start-up. And by the way, Graphisoft also can bankrupt one day, if everything will continue like these days.

I don't know where was that moment, when ArchiCAD first started to loose its years proven stability, then became fragmented with mixture of old, ancient features and brand new tools - that often speaks different languages and overall interface started to get heavier and heavier (with new light look). New generation of programmers stepped in Graphisoft Park and original developers team now retired? Something like that Gabor Boyar said in his recent interview - that now in GS working next generation of young software engineers with new visions. In interview it sounded very positive, but maybe this new generation must learn more from their retired colleagues?
About 10 years ago there was a paper from GS programmers about how Revit is bad, how bad technology there, how poorly written course code to compare to ArchiCAD. Very important point was - Revit crashes all the time. But as I remember last versions, maybe starting from version 23, constantly experience problem with stability. You can have super-expensive Mac's, fast Internet and BIM server running on really good, solid stable machine, - ArchiCAD will crash all the time as soon as file is growing in size and archives size of 2-4 GB. But this is normal size of good BIM model in TW - few GB. Otherwise no point even try to work in BIM.
Now new version and what the first problem user experienced - in first two days after release? First post: 'ArchiCAD 25 crashes opening elevation with texture fills.'

Some users even writing here - we are happy to wait for new features longer then a year, paying money for our SSA, but please improve stability.

Laszlo Nagy
Community Admin
Community Admin
My point was that the fact that a company is from Silicon Valley is no guarantee that it will be successful in any given field - software or any other. Katerra is a good example of that.
....................................................................................................
Laszlo Nagy, Lead Moderator, Community Admin
Get Archicad Tips at https://twitter.com/laszlonagy
AMD Ryzen 1700X CPU, 48 GB RAM, NVidia GTX 1060 6GB, 500 GB NVMe SSD
2x28" (2560x1440), WIN10 PRO ENG, AC20-AC25
Loving Archicad since 1995

DGSketcher
Virtuoso
Podolsky wrote:
Mat wrote:
I think the better idea is to start crowfunding project: new ArchiCAD with all functionality we want.
Do we need 1 Million € for the programmers?

Compare Photoshop with Pixelmator Pro...
Yeh. Or ask Google or Amazon to launch development of new software for architecture and construction, because these dinosaurs Nemetschek and Autodesk cannot manage anymore in development modern software and stack somewhere on the edge of XX and XIX century. Seriously - Silicon Valley would manage that situation quickly.
Just a little reminder, Sketchup was in the hands of Google for six years and they pretty much did nothing to really develop it from more than a basic modeller. The documenting process was and is I believe still a mess.

On the Autode$k issue, did the letter make any difference? Have they actually genuinely changed direction? I doubt it, they hold a monopolistic position. There are too many hollow apologists on this planet just now, "oh we're sorry, we won't do it again and we will learn from what you are saying.", yeah, right up until the next shareholder meeting.

I agree AC25 so far has been a disaster, but take a close look at the competition and compare the stuff that works in AC against other software. If the other software does the job better then you have a choice. If it doesn't the best that can be done is to air your opinion and ride it out.
Apple iMac macOS Big Sur / AC24UKI (most recent builds)

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