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BIMx functionality

Rex Maximilian
Enthusiast
(note by moderator: this discussion diverged from another thread, which you can find here:
https://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=74047#p330111)

I would also point out in your letter that they took a perfectly great mobile viewer like BIMx and ruined it... all in the name of opening bigger models for big firms... forgetting the little guy.
Rex Maximilian, Honolulu, USA - www.rexmaximilian.com
ArchiCAD 25 (user since 3.4, 1991)
27" iMac (2019), 8-core 3.6 Ghz i9 processor, 40GB RAM, 1.5TB SSD, Radeon Pro Vega 48 (8GB)
Creator of the Maximilian ArchiCAD Template System
29 REPLIES 29

Podolsky
Newcomer
Rex wrote:
I would also point out in your letter that they took a perfectly great mobile viewer like BIMx and ruined it... all in the name of opening bigger models for big firms... forgetting the little guy.
What exactly they ruined in BIMx? BIMx (and BIM Cloud) for my by the way one of the best parts of modern ArchiCAD technology.
Could you describe in more details what do you think is missing in BIMx or how BIMx features are mismatching user expectations?

Rex Maximilian
Enthusiast
Have you compared items viewed in BIMX Legacy vs. the current BIMx? See my post in the "New vs Old BIMx" with examples.

https://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=70502#p322846

The left example is how it used to look in BIMx. The right example is how it looks now.
The old BIMx had beautifully rendered g,i. The models were beautifully lit all around. The new BIM uses a new renderer that doesn't use pre-baked textures. The result is a flatter looking model. Some areas are in light and some are in shade. You can't alter that either.

The reason for this was to have a lower intensive rendering method to load larger models. But what good is it to open larger models when it looks terrible?

Also, they took away the ability to have parallel (axonometric views) and 3D stereogram (with 3D glasses). I bought 50 pair of the glasses and used to have presentation meetings while walking around the model on a large TV. Google cardboard pales in comparison. Everyone has to have their own cardboard, their own phone and has to control the walk-through themselves... and then of course there is the dizziness that occurs with Cardboard.

I'd have to go back to the iPad app Penultimate to think of an app that had a more crippling update.
Rex Maximilian, Honolulu, USA - www.rexmaximilian.com
ArchiCAD 25 (user since 3.4, 1991)
27" iMac (2019), 8-core 3.6 Ghz i9 processor, 40GB RAM, 1.5TB SSD, Radeon Pro Vega 48 (8GB)
Creator of the Maximilian ArchiCAD Template System

Steve Jepson
Expert
Just for the fun of stirring the pot a little more ...I will offer my opinion about why *some* ArchiCAD users have been more and more dissatisfied with every new version of ArchiCAD that comes out.

Imagine, if you can, a program like ArchiCAD that was designed by people in Shanghai vs one designed by people in Cheyenne. I suppose that is all the needs to be said.

[political content removed by moderator]
ArchiCAD 25 3011 USA - Windows 10 Pro 64x - Dell 7720 64 GB 2400MHz ECC - Xeon E3 1535M v6 4.20GHz - (2) 1TB M.2 PCIe Class 50 SSD's - 17.3" UHD IPS (3840x2160) - Nvidia Quadro P5000 16GB GDDR5 - Maxwell Studio/Render 5.2.1.49 Multilight 2.1.0.1

Podolsky
Newcomer
Rex wrote:
Have you compared items viewed in BIMX Legacy vs. the current BIMx? See my post in the "New vs Old BIMx" with examples.

https://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=70502#p322846

The left example is how it used to look in BIMx. The right example is how it looks now.
The old BIMx had beautifully rendered g,i. The models were beautifully lit all around. The new BIM uses a new renderer that doesn't use pre-baked textures. The result is a flatter looking model. Some areas are in light and some are in shade. You can't alter that either.

The reason for this was to have a lower intensive rendering method to load larger models. But what good is it to open larger models when it looks terrible?

Also, they took away the ability to have parallel (axonometric views) and 3D stereogram (with 3D glasses). I bought 50 pair of the glasses and used to have presentation meetings while walking around the model on a large TV. Google cardboard pales in comparison. Everyone has to have their own cardboard, their own phone and has to control the walk-through themselves... and then of course there is the dizziness that occurs with Cardboard.

I'd have to go back to the iPad app Penultimate to think of an app that had a more crippling update.
I mentioned BIMx render in number 5. I know this problem with new BIMx - the switched on using Metal by Apple. Don't know how it works on Android and Windows. Probably it's poor Metal use. Now ArchiCAD 25 is getting Metal instead of OpenGL, some users wrote on forum that it's sucks too. But old method also was sucks - especially the time for GI calculation and the fact that never was real GI - just ambient occlusion.

David Collins
Booster
Steve wrote:
Just for the fun of stirring the pot a little more
Just find yourself an empty workstation somewhere back there in the design department and someone will be along to get you started.
David Collins
Win10 64bit Intel i7 6700 3.40 Ghz 32 Gb RAM
AC 24.0 (3022 INT FULL)

Israel de Quevedo
Contributor
With a palette of tasks for construction simulation, we would have an infinite advantage over any other type of bim solution, since certificates could be created based on the phases of the current construction project.

Planned start and finish dates of the construction task, critical paths with previous tasks, and a percentage of completion system, and a reference to each item associated with a task, references to "Microsoft project" files that can be exported to work residents and reimport them for coordination, all this would serve to offer the best solution. in the 4DBIM and 5DBIM construction planning market

with that we could say goodbye to revit and his younger brother navis.

Podolsky
Newcomer
Israel wrote:
With a palette of tasks for construction simulation, we would have an infinite advantage over any other type of bim solution, since certificates could be created based on the phases of the current construction project.

Planned start and finish dates of the construction task, critical paths with previous tasks, and a percentage of completion system, and a reference to each item associated with a task, references to "Microsoft project" files that can be exported to work residents and reimport them for coordination, all this would serve to offer the best solution. in the 4DBIM and 5DBIM construction planning market

with that we could say goodbye to revit and his younger brother navis.
Navisworks is not really brother of Revit. I might say - brother from another father. Navisworks before was independent platform - you could use it with ArchiCAD too. Just one day Revit and Navisworks were adopted by new parents.

jl_lt
Contributor
You gotta love Autodesk consistency on this. Even autocad was not originally created by them, they bought the idea and original code from another guy.

Rex Maximilian
Enthusiast
Podolsky wrote:
But old method also was sucks - especially the time for GI calculation and the fact that never was real GI - just ambient occlusion.
Yes, it was ambient occlusion pre-baked textures... but, it was leagues better than what they have now. I was pleasing enough for walk-throughs.

I'm just waiting for Twinmotion's cloud presenter to have iOS controls, and then I'm done with BIMx.
Rex Maximilian, Honolulu, USA - www.rexmaximilian.com
ArchiCAD 25 (user since 3.4, 1991)
27" iMac (2019), 8-core 3.6 Ghz i9 processor, 40GB RAM, 1.5TB SSD, Radeon Pro Vega 48 (8GB)
Creator of the Maximilian ArchiCAD Template System

furtonb
Enthusiast
Rex wrote:
I'm just waiting for Twinmotion's cloud presenter to have iOS controls, and then I'm done with BIMx.
I feel you. I had to submit a few renderings for a client a few weeks ago, the package also consisted a BIMx submission for them to check the design. They asked me not to have the latest modifications in the BIMx (pretty detailed furniture and other assets, so it was additional work to get them back into AC), because they wouldn't use it anyway, due to the low quality look of it.

The only advantage left for it is the inclusion of layouts, which are useful for construction site visits, but the presentation value tends to zero - almost everyone wants the quality of other engines (UE specifically) for walkable model content.
actively using: AC22-25 INT | Rhino6-7 | macOS / win10

Sunny75
Participant
The only advantage left for it is the inclusion of layouts, which are useful for construction site visits, but the presentation value tends to zero - almost everyone wants the quality of other engines (UE specifically) for walkable model content.


We actually use Enscape for presentation, it works inside archicad so no switching back and forth between programs, we do not use Twinmotion and BIMX; it is so much faster to do everything inside Archicad. Construction output in pdf, dwg or ifc. I personally never really understood the added value of BIMX

furtonb
Enthusiast
Sunny75 wrote:
I personally never really understood the added value of BIMX
It is useful to be able to export all your floorplans/sections/etc. with your model. Like this, for example:
https://bimx.graphisoft.com/model/80899f67-550a-44c2-8a52-2b6c59e2f679

It's pretty useful - just don't try to use it as a visualisation tool, because you'll end up embarassing yourself...
actively using: AC22-25 INT | Rhino6-7 | macOS / win10

Podolsky
Newcomer
furtonb wrote:
Sunny75 wrote:
I personally never really understood the added value of BIMX
It is useful to be able to export all your floorplans/sections/etc. with your model. Like this, for example:
https://bimx.graphisoft.com/model/80899f67-550a-44c2-8a52-2b6c59e2f679

It's pretty useful - just don't try to use it as a visualisation tool, because you'll end up embarassing yourself...
ArchiCAD school:
https://bimx.graphisoft.com/model/115991ee-e7f4-48d6-a7dd-93c632c6b0f7

furtonb
Enthusiast
Podolsky wrote:
ArchiCAD school:
https://bimx.graphisoft.com/model/115991ee-e7f4-48d6-a7dd-93c632c6b0f7
Yes, this is a nice example for showing stages of construction, visually it's not something clients would use for sales purposes, or what I would present for decision making. For these, BIMx is rather underdeveloped look-wise: your model too has some off-putting AO splashes on the walls, textures are low-res, there aren't even baked reflections, and to get this result, it takes ages.

The threshold for low-end viz is way higher these days, and the high-end is somewhere in the stratosphere: https://www.facebook.com/nu.ma.arq/photos/a.2506501652759924/4114308085312598/

From the Graphisoft website:
"Archicad’s professional architectural visualization tools translate your conceptual designs into compelling imagery of future buildings. Bring your models to life, inspire the audience, and invite stakeholders to engage with your designs."

It would be awesome to access basic render passes to produce composite imagery out of the box to meet requirements without having to open a 3rd party modelling software that has access to some state of the art rendering engine ("traditional" or realtime) - Cinerender just isn't one.

The Twinmotion connection and UE Datasmith are steps in this direction, which are nice, but you lose the ability to have an integrated experience between the design and its documentation.

You either
- duplicate work (having to model everything twice)
- have a mismatched or incomplete experience (showing a model and disconnected PDFs for instance).

Even if you duplicate the model, you will struggle with the high-poly assets available elsewhere (C4D, UE, Twinmotion, Blender - you name it), or have a really simplified representation in BIMx (that can mislead the client).
actively using: AC22-25 INT | Rhino6-7 | macOS / win10

Podolsky
Newcomer
BIMx is very good for showing construction information on building sites - one of the best in this world. They just need to add additional features of pre-backed textures.
By the way, render quality and pre-baked textures made by Lightscape (old Canadian radiosity visualization software) were good enough and can be used something similar in BIMx - most important - speed of production and small size.
To be fully accessible from website - it's also the power of BIMx.

jl_lt
Contributor
In my opinion bimx is not intened for visualization purposes for clients, as it can actually play against you if they´re not tecnical people. Its more for on-site visualization with contractors where you can see the basic model with plans and sections, without textures and other hoohas, and for that it works great! Granted, as Mr. Rex said, if it previously had some basic nice quality and they downgraded it, then thats not good (havent used the newer version).

Visualization, with its obsession on realism is rapidly approaching to porn, and clients are becoming more and more spoiled because of it. Renders also suffer from the uncanny valley phenomenom: as it gets more realistic, it needs more detail to look better, eventually becoming unfeasible to model within time and economic constraints. Ive seen clients complain because the water reflection on the pool didnt look that good.

Hence, you strip detail to show what matter, that is, BIMx. Yet, If you need more realism for clients, then Enscape, Twinmotion or UE are the way to go.

Rex Maximilian
Enthusiast
The other thing about BIMx is the way they deleted useful features from what is now BIMx Legacy. Can you imagine the uproar if ArchiCAD did away with parallel projections in the 3D window? No 3D plans, or side views, no axons... perspective only? Yet somehow the developers thought this would be a good idea to strip from BIMx.
Rex Maximilian, Honolulu, USA - www.rexmaximilian.com
ArchiCAD 25 (user since 3.4, 1991)
27" iMac (2019), 8-core 3.6 Ghz i9 processor, 40GB RAM, 1.5TB SSD, Radeon Pro Vega 48 (8GB)
Creator of the Maximilian ArchiCAD Template System

Erwin Edel
Mentor
I think BIMx can have a 'rant' all on its own.

I strongly agree with Rex here. Removing functionality that was previously there is very unprofessional towards my clients.

Virtual Building Explorer started out as just that and had zero functionality for building professionals on site. That there is a pro app that offers this now, is fine by me, but for a lot of us there also clients that 'just' want to view their project in 3D and show it off to friends etc. These are also 'big' projects. We have had a lot of villa projects ranging from 900 m³ to 2.000 m³ (or 700k euro to 1.5 m euro) over the years and our clients were very pleased with BIMx presentation and being able to explore their new homes etc

I also do not care for the arbitrary shifting of functionality over to a pro app, which is intended for building professionals on building sites, but was previously available as presentation options in a free app. We pay a fairly hefty subscription, which includes having the ability to host our BIMx projects on the official GS server for it, I do not see why my clients need to buy pro apps just to 'unlock' the nicer presentation of their new home.
Erwin Edel, Project Lead, Leloup Architecten
www.leloup.nl

ArchiCAD 9-24 NED FULL
Windows 10 Pro
Adobe Design Premium CS5

Mjules
Booster
I hope Autodesk buys Graphisoft as well. It will pay more attention to our inquiries.
jl_lt wrote:
You gotta love Autodesk consistency on this. Even autocad was not originally created by them, they bought the idea and original code from another guy.
Martin Luther Jules
AC 10-25 (Full)
Alienware | 64 GB RAM | Windows 10

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