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Issue, Hide Selection in 3D

thesleepofreason
Advocate

The new Hide Selection in 3D function is view specific - which is great! So you use the function in a view to hide an element, redefine the view with current window setting and the element/s stay hidden in that view.

 

However, there seem to be a rather counter-intuitive and critical issue with the current implementation.

 

If you create a new element it will not show in any view that has hidden elements in it. 

 

So rather than hiding the selected elements in the view the new function seem to limit the view to only show the inverse of the selection/s. The difference is crucial.

 

If I'm not mistaken then this could compromise workflows using 3D views with regards to QA. Because in order to rely on a view one have to constantly redefine (show all, redo any eventual hiding, redefine) due to the possibility that the view has, perhaps unintentionally, been defined with a hidden element. If this is not done, then there's a risk with elements created after the view was defined don't show in the view although the haven't been actively hidden. The fact that there is no way to tell if a view contain hide selection operations makes it worse.

 

The current implementation also means that a lot of the function's potential is lost. Say that you use the function to quickly set up a view that hides any element that is irrelevant to what you want to model/show. The current implementation means that you are limited to modelling in the specific view and that you, unprompted, need to remember to redefine the view before changing the 3D window if you want any new elements to be shown in the view. If you have to use a different view, like 2d plan to place a new element, or forget to redefine before changing the 3D window then you have to redo the hiding. 

 

I think that this shows that there is a real and urgent need to rework how Element Visibility Control work in AC. 

11 REPLIES 11

DGSketcher
Virtuoso

Is this really new? It seems to echo the 3D Document process, which I use frequently, and it can be a pain maintaining the content. Tricky one, but fair comment, I am just not sure there is a "right" way to answer this problem. The balance seems to be in favour of not having items appear unexpectedly rather than risking omissions in a view. Layers are quite handy for showing & hiding bits... 

Apple iMac macOS Big Sur / AC24UKI (most recent builds)

But 3D documents generally show new elements right? Yes, you may have to adapt the document to changes in the model but there is no real issue with whats shown or not?   

 

The (unconfirmed) problem with the current implementation of Hide Selection is that it doesn't seem to work like you would expect and apart from losing out on some potential it also introduces a new issue for 3D views.

 

What you expect is that the function hides a selected element in a specific view and nothing more. So if you have a wall and a column in the model > hide the wall > redefine 3D view > add another column using a plan view then you would expect the new column to show in the 3D view as it hasn't been hidden.

 

But this is not the case. Instead it seem to work as if one used show selection on the initial column with the result that it is the only thing showing in the view regardless of any additions.

 

Apart from the inefficiency in having to redefine the view after additions it also introduces an uncertainty regarding the actuality of the 3D view in relation to the model.

3D Documents don't always update with new elements. As I say I use them regularly for some drawings. In order to extract the relevant information the view is filtered to a selection. Once this filter is applied I can't add anything without redefining the view with an updated selection from the 3D window. I appreciate what you are saying, it just seems to be that way "by design" (in GS terms) and I don't see an easy fix. If you can see one then please float it here and then it might make the Wishlist.

Apple iMac macOS Big Sur / AC24UKI (most recent builds)

I thought you meant 3D documents in general. Yes, if the 3D document is created from a view that has been filtered using Show Selection then you will get the same result. However, that is expected as you have selected elements to be shown in the view. On the contrary it would be an issue if added elements started to show in the view.

 

The solution to the issue with new elements not showing in views which contains Hide Selection is not conceptual but technical. It doesn't seem that the command truly hides the elements but rather applies Show Selection to the inverse. That's not really hiding.

 

The (!) solution to the limiting and inefficient issue with the need to manually redefine a view that contains Show Selection operations is outlined in my other thread on the subject.

 

 

Barry Kelly
Moderator

@thesleepofreason wrote:

If you create a new element it will not show in any view that has hidden elements in it. 


This could be a bit of a problem.

There should be some sort of (non-printable) warning on the screen to say that some objects are hidden or the 3D window tab should change colour.

Or maybe the right click context menu should have an option to 'Show hidden elements' when there are hidden elements at play.

Currently there is 'Show all', but that is always there, hidden elements or not.

 

If you are not saving a 3D view, eventually all will be fine when you close the 3D window and re-open it.

All the hidden elements will now show again.

But if you do save a view, then all of the hidden elements will not show - this is fine.

But as mentioned, if you now add new elements and open that view again, you will not see the hidden elements - this is bad.

The hidden elements should remain hidden, but new elements should appear.

 

If you save a view that does not have hidden elements, new elements will appear automatically when you re-open that same view.

Why would they now not show just because some other elements have been hidden?

 

Having hidden elements should not lock that view.

Only the elements that were set to be hidden should remain hidden - new elements should show.

 

As I mentioned, there should be some sort of warning that there are hidden elements currently active.

Then the user knows straight away what they are dealing with.

 

Barry.

 


One of the forum moderators.
Versions 6.5 to 25
Dell XPS- i7-6700 @ 3.4Ghz, 16GB ram, GeForce GTX 960 (2GB), Windows 10
Dell Precision 3510 - i7 6820HQ @ 2.70GHz, 16GB RAM, AMD FirePro W5130M, Windows 10

yuryuymanov
Booster

I'm disappointed too! I expected, that this new function would not be the F5 mode (show selection in 3d). It can save some time, but before everybody did the same by selecting all, deselecting elements to be hidden, and pressing F5. But if you want to show something new, you have to unhide ALL you have hidden before and do it every time, when new objects to be shown. Hiding objects by new Hide Selection must be independent of F5 mode!

thesleepofreason
Advocate

@Minh Nguyen , would appreciate a comment on if this works as intended or not. It function as such is great but the current implementation is rather confusing and makes leaves some unrealised potential.

Minh Nguyen
Graphisoft Moderator
Graphisoft Moderator

Hi All,

 

Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts regarding this behavior!

 

I managed to reproduce the problem on Archicad 25 - I believe it is the same on previous versions (even though Hide selection was not available as a separate menu in 3D). I will ask for some help from my colleagues to investigate further. As soon as we have an answer, I will inform you here.

 

Thank you all once more, and have a great day!

Best regards,

Minh

Minh Nguyen
Technical Support Engineer
GRAPHISOFT

Yes, in previous versions if you viewed selected items in 3D, then that is all you would see.

Just those selected items.

And if you keep the 3D window open or save a view, you will still only see those selected items even if you add more to the floor plan.

This is understandable, as you selected what you want to see and have never selected the new items.

 

But with this new 'Hide Selection' option, I guess the same thing is happening, but from the 3D window and not the 2D, I am not sure it should though.

If I hide elements in 3D, but add more to the plan, I have not told it I want to see just selected items.

I just don't want to see certain items.

But I would expect if I add new items in 2D, that I would see them in 3D.

I guess it is really acting like I have selected all the other items in 3D and only want to show those.

I can see why it is happening, but as I said, I don't think it should.

 

Interestingly though, if I add new items in 3D, it will keep showing those.

It just doesn't show the new items if added in 2D (same in older versions as well).

 

I think there should be some sort of indication that elements have been hidden.

Same with show selection from 2D in 3D now I think of it.

It would be nice if there was some sort of indication that not all items are showing.

Sure we can just choose 'Show All' but how do we know we need to do that?

 

It is not a show stopper.

Would just be nice to have some sort of indication that what we are viewing in 3D, is not all elements.

 

Hope that makes sense - very late now. 😴

Barry.


One of the forum moderators.
Versions 6.5 to 25
Dell XPS- i7-6700 @ 3.4Ghz, 16GB ram, GeForce GTX 960 (2GB), Windows 10
Dell Precision 3510 - i7 6820HQ @ 2.70GHz, 16GB RAM, AMD FirePro W5130M, Windows 10

Hi Barry,

 

Thank you very much for the detail explanation! That's totally understandable!

 

We consulted with the development, and indeed, the Hide Selection function is more or less the same as Show Selection command, but it works straight in 3D. Therefore, we would expect the same functionality between both:

 

- In case of Show Selection + Save View, the view will store the selected element ids. When view is opened only the stored elements will be shown.
- In case of Hide Selection + Save View, the visible elements of the 3D windows are stored but the selected elements are not stored. So when view is opened only the elements visible when storing will be shown. 

 

There is a text about this on View Settings/3D only page: 3D view limited by stored selection

screenshot-1.png

 

I hope this is understandable, albeit it's a bit counterintuitive. Please let me know if you have any questions or comments. Thank you very much!

 

Best regards,

Minh

Minh Nguyen
Technical Support Engineer
GRAPHISOFT

I appreciate the response although I must say that it's quite disheartening that the implementation works as intended.

 

There is a real and crucial difference between actively showing and actively hiding. Given the implementation it's nothing more than a shortcut for Ctrl+A > deselect element > F5. To call this 'hide' is counter intuitive to the degree of confusion. To call it a new feature is deceitful.

 

For a user ignorant of the inner technicalities it's hard to see why we don't have an expression based visibility control where hidden elements are handled as an exception to the list of shown elements. 

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