Need help drawing complex wall segment

[Anonymous]

I am new to ArchiCAD. I'd like to model a composite wall segment consisting of three layers... basically, 2 concrete walls with an insulation layer between. But there's another twist. The concrete segments are "keyed" so that they lock together. Walls are created by repeating these interlocking segments. Do I need to create a GDL object? A composite wall? Any/all help is appreciated.

Here's a sketch of what the wall segment will look like from the top.

Thanks in advance

[Karl Ottenstein]

The picture sure helps to see what you want. Thanks.

I'd thought about the same issue with the Durisolwood chip/concrete wall forms that come in fixed unit sizes and have keyed ends (and special shapes for corners).

The keys and the units do not fit into a conventional ArchiCAD wall - composite or not. The way you model these depends on the type of documents that you need to produce.

If you want to wave your hands at the block location, you can define a custom fill for the block layers of the composite that include the key shape...the fill will suggest to the builder the wall type, but not the location of the block joints.

If you have a reason to model every block - perhaps because each rough opening will be at exactly certain block boundaries and you have different length blocks that you can use and you want a coded layout in elevation for the builders, then maybe you do need to represent the blocks as objects. No immediate need for GDL - just draw the profile and use the slab tool and magic want to create the block. But, GDL would make building easier than dragging copies around horizontally and vertically. If your rough openings aren't on block boundaries, you'd have to use solid element ops to subtract a mass for each opening to cut the holes...since a bunch of blocks isn't a "wall".

Anyway, I can't imagine that you want to do all of that ... modeling the keys is a waste of polygons (slowing down view generation) since they won't show up anywhere exept plan.

Sorry...rambling too much at this hour. Maybe you can clarify why a simple composite isn't good enough and why you want to show the block keys?

Karl

[Anonymous]

Thanks Karl. You certainly gave me some things to think about. I'm especially glad to make your aquaintance because the building I'm designing is destined for Bonner's Ferry ID... not far from you in Sandpoint.

I glossed over a few things in my original question... I wanted to cast a large net for answers.

First, the wall will actually be made of Rammed Earth (see, for example, http://www.sirewall.com ), not concrete. Thus, each segment will be monolithic... continuous from floor to ceiling, not made of blocks. The keys themselves are not very important to track... but the wall segments are. The seams between segments are visible in the finished product and I'd like them to be visible in the renderings. Actually, the seams between segments have a small chamfer... it would be cool, but not strictly necessary, to capture those chamfers so that shadows and so forth can be rendered accurately. Material cost and construction time are directly related to the number of segments, so I really need to track them.

As I said, I am new to ArchiCAD so I have no idea about things like effects on rendering time. I am trying (and failing) to find nearby training over the next couple of months. On the other hand, I am a computer nerd by training and trade so programming in GDL does not intimidate me.

Karl, I'll be spending a week in Bonners Ferry in late February. If it fits with your schedule, perhaps you could provide some tutoring? You can email me directly at .

Thanks again for your reply,

=dave=

[Anonymous]

Dave

Actually, the seams between segments have a small chamfer... it would be cool, but not strictly necessary, to capture those chamfers so that shadows and so forth can be rendered accurately

A simple way to render the chamfer would be to use bullion operations in V8-8.1, make a thick slab which is triangular in plan (the size of your chamfer) and copy it around your building as required. Put it on a special layer so you can group all of them and then subtract them all from the walls.
The down side is they will not show correctly on plan, so you would need a patch for the plan, you could group the patch with the slab (on different layers) before you copy them around to save effort.

A GDL approach could be to create a special window...

regards

[Anonymous]

if you are not a beginner like you are
you could make a 2d or 3d wall accesory object by modifying the solution of wall stud framing object .
it has the inteligence to adapt to a wall with an complex master script gdl sintax and with solid operations in gdl scripts like PLACEGROUP etc. it can respect the existing holes in wall

[Karl Ottenstein]

Bill wrote:
make a thick slab which is triangular in plan (the size of your chamfer) and copy it around your building as required. Put it on a special layer so you can group all of them and then subtract them all from the walls.
The down side is they will not show correctly on plan, so you would need a patch for the plan, you could group the patch with the slab (on different layers) before you copy them around to save effort.

More or less what I was going to suggest. 😉

The solid element operations are IMHO the way to go for this. To clarify, a special layer isn't needed to group the cutting objects, but to control their visibility.

Rather than a patch, I would save the triangular tall slab as an object and edit its own 2D symbol. (Using a patch requires that you group the patch with the cutting slab - and keep it grouped for all copy/rotate/drag operations. Murphy's Law says that at some point you'll have grouping suspended and get just the patch or just the slab.)

Also, by saving the cutting slab as a (GDL) object, the customized 2D symbol can be made to have not just the V-shape edges (deleting the outer edge parallel to the wall) - but could be filleted and additional hotspots could be placed to make it easier to snap it onto walls at precise positions. David Nicholson-Cole's book "Object Making with ArchiCAD" explains how to do these things and is highly recommended. (No programming necessary for this one.) Since you're new to AC, Dave, this probably sounds like a real hassle - but it's only about a minute or two of work. I can step you through it if you'd like.

The reason for the triangle that Bill suggested is that you'll only get two extra planes for each cut in the wall - so the effect on rendering is minimal, yet a shadow will show there. If you're going to get really close to one of these, then you might want a more realistic shape - and a GDL object can be programmed that will change its shape depending on how far away the camera is - giving fewer polygons when far away and more only when they make a difference, close up. But, I can't imagine you need that here.

Karl

[Karl Ottenstein]

archibaldo wrote:
if you are not a beginner like you are
you could make a 2d or 3d wall accesory object by modifying the solution of wall stud framing object .
it has the inteligence to adapt to a wall with an complex master script gdl sintax and with solid operations in gdl scripts like PLACEGROUP etc. it can respect the existing holes in wall

Actually, the wall accessory isn't a solution for his needs unless the only views will be elevations and full 3D exteriors (no 3D cuts). Even then, it is far more complex than the solid element op solution.

While you can create a custom wall accessory object to be mapped onto a wall by the wall accessory API, this object is an additional mass applied onto the wall. To obtain the reveals that Dave wants, the wall accessory would have to thicken the wall as much as the depth of the reveals - for the full wall - and in the process, obscure window and door trim (the accessory knows about holes, not trim), and a host of other problems.

Not the right choice in this case IMHO.

Karl