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Pay before you know?????? GRRR

SenecaDesignLLC
Booster
So i tried to beta test this year,  i wasnt the right fit lol.
but im pretty upset that i have to pay to upgrade with out knowing whats upgraded.

I feel archicad should be able to tell us what they have to offer each year before asking me for money.
I want and plan to upgrade but what if it isnt the right fit? and what if i only use one license? 

kinda BS if you ask me.

at least find a way to let the current users know what they are getting into. Im a one man show with extra licenses. if none of the upgrades help me i dont want to upgrade right? but i dont get to know whats in the update until after i pay.. other than i love the program and believe it to be worth the cost this bothers me.
this is the typical scam so why is archicad treating us this way....
AC 24, Twinmotion current, Windows 11, Msi 10UG with rtx 3070, wacom intuos pro m, Wacom Cintiq Pro 16, razer Tartarus pro.
37 REPLIES 37

Eduardo Rolon
Moderator
My only recommendation is to see if your reseller lets you move your subscription date to August since AC usually comes out during the summer. Although you could argue that you are if you pay in August you are still paying for the one that comes next summer…
eduardo rolón AIA NCARB
Another of the forum moderators.
Macbook Pro 2.4 i9 32GB ram
OS X 10.XX latest
AC25 US/INT -> AC08

Karl Ottenstein
Moderator
I understand your frustration, since your ArchiPlus SSA subscription is renewing before AC25 is announced, and a major benefit of the subscription is receipt of any new version released during the annual period.

The subscription fee (not an upgrade fee) provides priority technical support, physical license key insurance (for those with keys), subscriber-only downloadable content, and more ... along with any updates released during the subscription year. I'm not sure that they even guarantee that a major update will be released, it is just that history says we should expect one...and of course we all know in this case that AC 25 has been beta tested and will be announced next month.

We are fortunate in this new world of software subscriptions (which I'm not fond of) - that our licenses are still permanent and if we don't renew our SSA, we still have our license(s) for the current and previous versions forever. In that 'other' world (Adobe comes to mind - but also Microsoft, Quicken, Dropbox, etc), when you stop paying, you stop having the use of the software to create new content. But, with those subscriptions, customers get new features continuously throughout the subscription period...but still never know what those new features are until they are released, much like the case here.

What is your reseller's penalty for not paying your SSA on time - but paying it a month late (AC 25 will be announced in less than 30 days)? Have you called them to ask? If your only reason for paying your annual subscription fee is the upgrade, then I totally see your frustration and it seems Graphisoft might have some flexibility? But, my understanding is that if you stop paying and skip one annual cycle, then the upgrade at the next cycle (should it have features that you want) will cost the same as if you had paid now anyway so nothing is really gained.

Call your Graphisoft reseller (which I think is Bim6x?) and talk about this and/or call the ArchiPlus contact person at GSNA in Boston/Newton.
One of the forum moderators   •   AC 25 USA and earlier   •   MacOS 11.6, iMac Pro

Brett Brown
Contributor
Karl wrote:
But, my understanding is that if you stop paying and skip one annual cycle, then the upgrade at the next cycle (should it have features that you want) will cost the same as if you had paid now anyway so nothing is really gained
Don't think this has ever been the case as people wouldn't buy the SSA if there was no advantage. There has always been a penalty added on for not purchasing the SSA, and that penalty cost-wise was why they encourage you to continue the SSA.
Imac, Mojave, AC 20, AC 25 Solo UKI, Vectorworks Architect 2021, Revit LT 2021

SenecaDesignLLC
Booster
I'll ask my reseller, apparently I was unaware that we aren't all on the same schedule?

I did ask them last year and was basically told no. Maybe I didn't ask the right question.
AC 24, Twinmotion current, Windows 11, Msi 10UG with rtx 3070, wacom intuos pro m, Wacom Cintiq Pro 16, razer Tartarus pro.

Mjules
Booster

Since you're talking about annual subscription fee, does Graphisoft operate like a membership corporation? If so, it would be interesting. We would only need the rights of vote to decide on both the Archicad features and future as well.

Mjules wrote:
Karl wrote:

The subscription fee (not an upgrade fee) provides priority technical support, physical license key insurance (for those with keys), subscriber-only downloadable content, and more ... along with any updates released during the subscription year.
Martin Luther Jules
AC 10-25 (Full)
Alienware | 64 GB RAM | Windows 10

insideru
Advocate
I'll throw my $0,02 into the mix, for whom it may concern.

I got to test a couple betas. Judging by that alone, I wouldn't have upgraded.
I think i watched all the keynotes, or at least the new features videos on youtube, for the past 5+ years. There were more times i wouldn't have upgraded, than otherwise.

And yet, i kept on paying the SSA. Why? Because its a fair deal, one of the fairest on the market at the moment. Even if i'm comparing it with Autodesk's incredibly antiuser subscription model.
Most of the times, i eventually got to use the new features i never thought would have a place in my workflow (i'm looking at you opening tool).

You can't always get features you wish for, you can't always get the fixes you want, but i still think the price is fair.

PS: My SSA expires in september/october, so i even get to test the new versions before paying anyway
ARCHICAD 24 INT
macOS Big Sur

Karl Ottenstein
Moderator
Mjules wrote:
Since you're talking about annual subscription fee. Does Graphisoft operate like a membership corporation? If so, it would be interesting. We would only need the rights of vote to decide on both the ArchiCAD features and future as well.
You're joking, right? Is Netflix a membership corporation? None of us are stockholders of Nemetschek Group, owner of Graphisoft, by way of making payment for a product and service. I'm sure if you bought 20% or more of Nemetschek, you would have the kind of input you're talking about. 🙂
One of the forum moderators   •   AC 25 USA and earlier   •   MacOS 11.6, iMac Pro

jl_lt
Contributor
I have to agree with Mr. Insideru. It is unrealistic to expect for life updates with one single price. I see it like those gym memberships that are quite low and you just keep paying it every year if for whatever reason one day you decide you finally need to get in shape.

Having said that, i also kind of agree with the OP. Yearly upgrading is not for everyone for all the time and cost involved in updating. So, why not implement an hybrid system? you pay yearly, but if you dont upgrade you pay less that year. If you skip two or three upgrades and you want to upgrade at the fourth year, you pay a premium, and so forth. Win win!

@Mr Mrjoules, one can always dream in being able to tell Prof. Nemetschek what to do

SenecaDesignLLC
Booster
jl_lt wrote:
I have to agree with Mr. Insideru. It is unrealistic to expect for life updates with one single price. I see it like those gym memberships that are quite low and you just keep paying it every year if for whatever reason one day you decide you finally need to get in shape.

Having said that, i kind of agree with the OP. Yearly upgrading is not for everyone. Why not implement an hybrid system? you pay yearly, but if you dont upgrade you pay less that year. If you skip two or three upgrades and you want to upgrade at the fourth year, you pay a premium, and so forth. Win win!

@Mr Mrjoules, one can always dream in being able to tell Prof. Nemetschek what to do
So much this.
I cannot change my upgrade date, I plan to always upgrade at least one license but I'm working alone and have 3 licenses. I'm not opposed to upgrading but the fact that they can't move my date because of when I signed up is stupid. I was told this by my reseller.
Thanks everyone who posted relevant content. It helps me a ton with my decision. Other than now I will have two dormant licenses.
What sucks is if it is a good update year and I choose not to, then I'm screwed.
Double edge sword I guess.
AC 24, Twinmotion current, Windows 11, Msi 10UG with rtx 3070, wacom intuos pro m, Wacom Cintiq Pro 16, razer Tartarus pro.

Mjules
Booster
@ Jl_lt and Karl,

I hope so! I am working hard on that.
Martin Luther Jules
AC 10-25 (Full)
Alienware | 64 GB RAM | Windows 10

Erwin Edel
Mentor
I have yet to touch AC24, however our resellers subscription scheme comes with a lot of content they add for the Dutch market and a fairly robust template that we've based our own off many years ago. Upgrading our template is fairly do-able from version to version. This alone makes it worth the price.

I'm hoping for some 'killer' addition to AC25 or some quality of life improvements here and there.

AC23 does well, though some bugs have still not been fixed... (explode imported drawing DWG that ends up with new renovation status... I'm looking at you!)

It does seem 'rude' to be send the bill for the new year which incl. the renewal without knowing up front what you are paying for. AC24 already felt like paying for half a product...
Erwin Edel, Project Lead, Leloup Architecten
www.leloup.nl

ArchiCAD 9-24 NED FULL
Windows 10 Pro
Adobe Design Premium CS5

Emre Senoglu
Enthusiast
i agree with the whole sentiment. the current pricing method feels too big of an upfront investment - speaking as a small office, i dont feel comfortable 'betting' on the features that are going to be announced. i've previously created a poll about wishing for a more transparent and visible development roadmap. i think more support on the issue might finally make AC pay more attention to this need. You can vote on the poll here
Archicad 22 TUR / 23 INT - Ryzen 2700x / Geforce GTX 1660Ti
Corona Renderer // Quixel Suite // Twinmotion // Rhinoceros
İmge Mimarlık // instagram

Braza
Newcomer
My 2 Cents.
I understand that having to pay in advance makes users feel like the horse with the hanging carrot.
Unfortunately, for a company with the size of Graphisoft playing in the global market, the continuous amount of financial resource is essential. Specially if you are trying to gain momentum over a giant like Autodesk. I am afraid that this policy will remain for a while until GS gains enough user base to support its ambitious plan. It is a price users will have to pay to have a software that actually helps in their day-to-day workflows. That is why I am in favor for a Software as a Service (SaaS) strategy for Archicad. It would considerably reduce software deployment and support costs. And if we could pay for Archicad the same we pay for Netflix (regarding the proportions ) it would be awesome, isn't it?
Paulo Henrique Santos, Architect
AC24_INT#3008 / I7 / 16Gb / 512Mb SSD / Windows 10

runxel
Mentor
Braza wrote:
And if we could pay for Archicad the same we pay for Netflix (regarding the proportions ) it would be awesome, isn't it?
You already can and no, that's not really awesome, and I'm thankful that GS didn't go this route.
See, what happens, if you suddenly can't pay your monthly fee? Bam, you can't edit your projects any longer.
AC 24 [ger] | Win 10 | Developer of the GDL plugin for Sublime Text |
«Furthermore, I consider that Carth... yearly releases must be destroyed»

Braza
Newcomer
Yes. There must be an option for at least visualize and share existing projects.
But if the cost was the same as Netflix (+-10 Euro monthly I presume. As I don't use it ) it would be really hard for an active Architect not to use the serviçe.
I also know that there are a lot of security/privacy concerns regarding any SaaS solution. In this case, I usually use the email analogy: How many of us use Gmail?... And how many of us can't sleep well just imagining that their emails may be at risk on a Google server?
Paulo Henrique Santos, Architect
AC24_INT#3008 / I7 / 16Gb / 512Mb SSD / Windows 10

jl_lt
Contributor
im also against the software as a service concept. mainly on principle. what is this obsession of always being up to date anyway? the constant mingling and updating of the software WITHOUT your permission is annoying in the very best of scenarios.

more distressing though are the perils of complacency, which lurk in the dark when companies receive constant influxes of cash without having done enough to deserve it

Barry Kelly
Moderator
jl_lt wrote:
im also against the software as a service concept. mainly on principle. what is this obsession of always being up to date anyway? the constant mingling and updating of the software WITHOUT your permission is annoying in the very best of scenarios.

Just to clarify, Archicad does not update anything without your permission.
Yes they provide the updates, but it is up to you as the user if you install them or not.

Barry.

One of the forum moderators.
Versions 6.5 to 25
Dell XPS- i7-6700 @ 3.4Ghz, 16GB ram, GeForce GTX 960 (2GB), Windows 10
Dell Precision 3510 - i7 6820HQ @ 2.70GHz, 16GB RAM, AMD FirePro W5130M, Windows 10

jl_lt
Contributor
yes. i was talking about software that does that, like Office.

Lingwisyer
Virtuoso
Braza wrote:
And if we could pay for Archicad the same we pay for Netflix (regarding the proportions )

Proportions? Of what? AC rental is available as far as I know and is like 20x the price of Netflix.
AC18-23 AUS 7000
Self-taught, bend it till it breaks.
Win10 | E5620 x 2 | 24GB | K2200

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