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Pay before you know?????? GRRR

SenecaDesignLLC
Booster
So i tried to beta test this year,  i wasnt the right fit lol.
but im pretty upset that i have to pay to upgrade with out knowing whats upgraded.

I feel archicad should be able to tell us what they have to offer each year before asking me for money.
I want and plan to upgrade but what if it isnt the right fit? and what if i only use one license? 

kinda BS if you ask me.

at least find a way to let the current users know what they are getting into. Im a one man show with extra licenses. if none of the upgrades help me i dont want to upgrade right? but i dont get to know whats in the update until after i pay.. other than i love the program and believe it to be worth the cost this bothers me.
this is the typical scam so why is archicad treating us this way....
AC 24, Twinmotion current, Windows 11, Msi 10UG with rtx 3070, wacom intuos pro m, Wacom Cintiq Pro 16, razer Tartarus pro.
37 REPLIES 37

Braza
Newcomer
Hi guys,
@Ling: I mean: Netflix has a huge user base that allows it to charge tens of dollars for a monthly subscription. Archicad surely wouldn't reach this numbers, but if it could considerably enlarge its users base with a SaaS solution then the subscription cost would be reduced dramatically. I think.

@jl_lt A SaaS solution could give the user the option to choose which AC version (and perhaps it would be as an even more interesting monthly fee. I mean: I don't really know the mechanics of this SaaS solution, but I think it has plenty of room for negotiation with GS. My opinion on this matter is due to the rise of 5G (6G is on its way). I don't think this technology will be implemented to let us work the same way we have been doing. The revolution is inevitable. Or most probably I am just getting too old and dramatic.
Paulo Henrique Santos, Architect
AC24_INT#3008 / I7 / 16Gb / 512Mb SSD / Windows 10

Jp1138
Expert
Braza wrote:
Hi guys,
@Ling: I mean: Netflix has a huge user base that allows it to charge tens of dollars for a monthly subscription. Archicad surely wouldn't reach this numbers, but if it could considerably enlarge its users base with a SaaS solution then the subscription cost would be reduced dramatically. I think...
It´s working perfectly for Autodesk users
ARCHICAD 24 SPA
Windows 10

Braza
Newcomer
Jp1138 wrote:
It´s working perfectly for Autodesk users
Ah! This is called greed.
Paulo Henrique Santos, Architect
AC24_INT#3008 / I7 / 16Gb / 512Mb SSD / Windows 10

Jp1138
Expert
Braza wrote:
Jp1138 wrote:
It´s working perfectly for Autodesk users
Ah! This is called greed.
Haha. No company is free from it, so I prefer to not test Graphisoft in this regard
ARCHICAD 24 SPA
Windows 10

SenecaDesignLLC
Booster
Just a little guy..
AC 24, Twinmotion current, Windows 11, Msi 10UG with rtx 3070, wacom intuos pro m, Wacom Cintiq Pro 16, razer Tartarus pro.

Brett Brown
Contributor
Good on you Seneca Design. Graphisoft is some weird company. A few years ago with a sentence in the ELUA made all our licenses worthless. I.E. couldn't be sold to some other poor unsuspecting customer. Good or bad move?
When the Learn portal opened up I signed up but never used it. But if you were an SSA customer they were free. Just like all the other software companies. Got an email today (assume like every other Learn customer) saying your SSA privileges were terminated and from July 1 you will have to pay full price for every course.

Re AC 25, its no more than a point release at best, so definitely not worth the SSA. So I won't be continuing my SSA which I purposely had in November so I could see where Graphisoft is heading.

In the last year, we have had major feature-rich releases from Archline XP, Vectorworks, Revit, and just recently Cheif Architect to name just a few. Then Graphisoft serves up AC 25. You be the judge if and when it's released. All those companies deserve their loyal customers, but with what Graphisoft is doing to its customers is a joke, some of those mentioned above.

Like Seneca Design, and I know many in my circles, we are moving to more user concentrated software companies with better features and with the number 1 thing better over Archicad, "Usability". You know, all those little simple things that piss us off daily and that we have been asking to be included for many years.

Graphisoft is in a little world of its own which seems to not include its users. Enough is a enough.
Imac, Mojave, AC 20, AC 25 Solo UKI, Vectorworks Architect 2021, Revit LT 2021

Lingwisyer
Virtuoso
Braza wrote:
@Ling: I mean: Netflix has a huge user base that allows it to charge tens of dollars for a monthly subscription. Archicad surely wouldn't reach this numbers, but if it could considerably enlarge its users base with a SaaS solution then the subscription cost would be reduced dramatically. I think.

I think that is more about upkeep and support which would be significantly lower for a video service than a CAD package.
AC18-23 AUS 7000
Self-taught, bend it till it breaks.
Win10 | E5620 x 2 | 24GB | K2200

Jp1138
Expert
I can´t completely agree with the original poster in regards of when your SSA is paid: allegedly, you pay for technical service and some advantages that last all year, just one of them is getting the newer version for free. If you just want to upgrade, and do so after you know if you are interested in the new version, you can do it later but it will cost you more the older your version is.

The problem I see is that the only real benefit of SSA seems to be the upgrade, and in that way seems strange to pay before you know what you are getting. This move by Graphisoft

Brett wrote:
Got an email today (assume like every other Learn customer) saying your SSA privileges were terminated and from July 1 you will have to pay full price for every course.
just can´t be understood. It´s not like the courses were impressive to begin with, now you want to charge for them to your paying customers?? It just makes seem the SSA more expensive as it gives you even less. Is that a way to allow the local distributors to earn more money charging for the local courses?
Brett wrote:
In the last year, we have had major feature-rich releases from Archline XP, Vectorworks, Revit, and just recently Cheif Architect to name just a few...
I think users of those programs would strongly disagree , as least the ones I know that use Revit and Vectorworks have the same complaints (or more) about the updates you can see around here.

Brett wrote:
Graphisoft is in a little world of its own which seems to not include its users. Enough is a enough.
As has been said around many times, a more open approach to the roadmap of the software, just not an info dump once a year with the release, could make the users more part of the process. The interactions we get here in the forums are good, but we can hardly never get straight answers about desires or problems, they always refer to a greater authority that will look after the matters sometime.
ARCHICAD 24 SPA
Windows 10

Braza
Newcomer
SenecaDesignLLC wrote:
Decided that archicad doesn't care about us little guys.
It is sad you haven't reach an agreement.
But why don't you let the subscription expire, then next year sign it, lets say, in October? Then this situation won't happen again.
I just think starting all over again with another software is counter productive.
Besides this, I know fellow AC users that are still using AC20... And perhaps this is the reason of this surreal subscription situations: AC is so useful in some workflows that many users don't se a reason for upgrading. Then GS needs to "wave the carrot" to have some cash flow to support its development... Just speculating.
Paulo Henrique Santos, Architect
AC24_INT#3008 / I7 / 16Gb / 512Mb SSD / Windows 10

Braza wrote:
SenecaDesignLLC wrote:
Decided that archicad doesn't care about us little guys.
It is sad you haven't reach an agreement.
But why don't you let the subscription expire, then next year sign it, lets say, in October? Then this situation won't happen again.
I just think starting all over again with another software is counter productive.
Besides this, I know fellow AC users that are still using AC20... And perhaps this is the reason of this surreal subscription situations: AC is so useful in some workflows that many users don't se a reason for upgrading. Then GS needs to "wave the carrot" to have some cash flow to support its development... Just speculating.


No, I'm sorry, but I don't believe that's accurate at all.

I don't buy that the reason most people aren't upgrading is because they are "happy" with their current version or the usefulness in their workflow.

I strongly believe the reason MOST people don't bother upgrading is because for many versions now, they see no need to upgrade, or more pointedly, they see nothing in the new releases that justifies all the cost, effort, disruption and hassle of upgrading.

When you spend version after version chasing your own internal view of what the software should be or some internal roadmap that only matters to you, .....and none of it really addressing what a lot of people are clamoring for, you can't act surprised that people are reluctant to upgrade, or in this case, shopping for other options.

Between introducing features for literally other adjunct and adjacent trades and collaborators, or features addressing issues that users have long figured out their own clunky workarounds around anyway, or sometimes just no significant feature upgrades at all (even while having no performance or under-the-hood improvements),...and all in the last few versions,......then it doesn't surprise me at all to hear someone's still using version 20 or version 21 and is not exactly planning to upgrade to version 25 much less even looking forward to it.

That's what comes as a result of years and years of treating your customers like trash and seemingly not giving a d@mn about their concerns.
It's just reaping what you sow..

Even the versions that do come with some sort of tool improvements nowadays are more a case of half-baked, or over-thought and overly-complicated (with almost no in-between), with no special instruction or help to get people used to the new tools, and then they get left with the problems or shortfalls for up to 10 years(versions) or more before they get an improvement or a revamp.

Even Mighty Autodesk is now being humbled and forced to try and engage in some sort of interaction with their own customers after decades of that stand-offish attitude (Which, .....just to be clear,.... THEY COULD AFFORD TO DO), and yet Graphisoft for some befuddling reason, still seems married to this 1990's/2000's model and detached way of "arms-length" customer interaction (if that) and "relations".
It's truly bizarre.

But hey, as long we keep paying, what do they care, right?

Why fix something that's not broke and working for them, right?
(...by which I mean, of course, the (business) model and not the software)

Braza
Newcomer
Hi Bricklyne,
Bricklyne wrote:
I strongly believe the reason MOST people don't bother upgrading is because for many versions now, they see no need to upgrade, or more pointedly, they see nothing in the new releases that justifies all the cost, effort, disruption and hassle of upgrading.
Basically I said the same thing, but with a positive spin.
At some point they are satisfied with what they get and what they pay for, isn't it?
As already said here: Archicad users are fortunate in this new world of software subscriptions.
Paulo Henrique Santos, Architect
AC24_INT#3008 / I7 / 16Gb / 512Mb SSD / Windows 10

Jp1138
Expert
Braza wrote:
As already said here: Archicad users are fortunate in this new world of software subscriptions.
Let´s hope it stays that way for a long time
ARCHICAD 24 SPA
Windows 10

Rex Maximilian
Enthusiast
My beef with the latest update was the lack of new features for both standard SSA members and Mac users. As a basic SSA subscriber on a Mac, all I got was Dark Mode... $800 for Dark Mode. PARAM-O didn't work (at that time), and all other significant new features required an additional BIMcloud subscription for $600. If 25 follows suit, it may be worth looking into other software that offers legitimate new features to all subscribers.
Rex Maximilian, Honolulu, USA - www.rexmaximilian.com
ArchiCAD 25 (user since 3.4, 1991)
27" iMac (2019), 8-core 3.6 Ghz i9 processor, 40GB RAM, 1.5TB SSD, Radeon Pro Vega 48 (8GB)
Creator of the Maximilian ArchiCAD Template System

jl_lt
Contributor
a little bit drastic i have to say. but please, let us know if you find something better than archicad (in the same price range of course)

Rex Maximilian
Enthusiast
jl_lt wrote:
a little bit drastic i have to say. but please, let us know if you find something better than archicad (in the same price range of course)
It was a dramatic statement for effect. Not necessarily a true course of action to take... however, the trend is obvious that new features are geared for large firms and BIMcloud only subscribers.
Rex Maximilian, Honolulu, USA - www.rexmaximilian.com
ArchiCAD 25 (user since 3.4, 1991)
27" iMac (2019), 8-core 3.6 Ghz i9 processor, 40GB RAM, 1.5TB SSD, Radeon Pro Vega 48 (8GB)
Creator of the Maximilian ArchiCAD Template System

Jere
Newcomer
I can't agree with the sentiment at all. While the initial outlay for a perpetual license is high, the yearly subscription cost is quite economical considering it's THE main software I use for producing my architectural work.

Compare the monthly cost of an SSA subscription to, say, Quickbooks Online and the proportions are really evident.

I honestly think it's a good deal.
ArchiCAD 24-5000; Windows 10; Intel i5-3570K; 16GB RAM, GeForce GTX 960

jl_lt
Contributor
yes, but the main subtheme is the inability to have an upgrade or not, depending on the new features. hence my proposal of an hybrid paying scheme.

Jp1138
Expert
jl_lt wrote:
yes, but the main subtheme is the inability to have an upgrade or not, depending on the new features. hence my proposal of an hybrid paying scheme.
But that is not true. You can upgrade anytime you want, just it would be more expensive than being on the SSA. For example:

https://simbim.es/es/graphisoft/61-186-archicad-actualizacion.html#/45-maintenance-anadir_archiclub_...

Depending on the number of versions you are behind, it would have different prices...
ARCHICAD 24 SPA
Windows 10

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