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What do you think should be done to get Archicad a bigger market share ?

Anonymous
Not applicable
I personally find ARCHICAD way more powerful, easy to use, faster and all in all innovative than other solutions like Revit. However since Revit is backed up by Autodesk and long years of Autocad dominance, ARCHICAD isn’t leading in terms of market share, what do you think GRAPHISOFT should do better? Do you think it’s enough for them to just push for a better product ? Or is there something else you would do ?
272 REPLIES 272

DGSketcher
Virtuoso
Have you considered that perhaps you made a mistake in not allowing sufficient space for the lift installation? They have minimum dimensions for their assembly, if you didn't make provision for their headroom or plan footprint then how is that the lift manufacturer's problem? If you are lead designer then you need to take responsibility for ensuring your specified components fit. This is why you teach your staff what to look for when adding components. Lift manufacturers information is usually quite clear if you give staff time to understand what they are specifying.

Estate prices... 20x, 30x, 40x welcome to capitalism. You don't have to live there. Stop blaming everyone else for your problems.
Apple iMac macOS Big Sur / AC24UKI (most recent builds)

Barry Kelly
Moderator
To all contributors here.
Please remember that when someone writes their opinion here it is just that, THEIR opinion.
You may agree or disagree and that is fine, because that is YOUR opinion.
There really is no need for tit and tat responses.
You can always Private Message someone to get into a more deep and meaningful conversation.


It is very easy for topics to go off subject, which I think is what is happening here.
I am not sure what real estate market prices has to do with how Archicad gets a bigger share.
Please keep on topic.


Barry.

One of the forum moderators.
Versions 6.5 to 25
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Podolsky
Mentor
Thank you Barry for that.

Returning to the topic. My vision of today's BIM world is: the system of federated models and growing complicity of BIM packages do not work - architects and engineers are not following all new features and learning process takes ages (when nobody has enough time for proper training - because of time frames of projects deliveries). When 3D systems like ArchiCAD were introduced, the main point was that 3D architectural programs are error free - compare to 2D CAD systems. But reality is different - people are making more mistakes in 3D BIM programs today, than during 2D drafting. This is why not so many practises are able to deliver BIM models to level of details 5. Hardly even to LOD 3. When Virtual Construction process requires LOD 5 (then it's becoming really beneficial).

ArchiCAD from one hand shall continue introducing more complex tools (as the latests tools updates - curtain wall, stairs, railings), but also move into direction of simplicity of use, driven by algorithms with AI-like support. When instead of making 25 clicks and adding 30 different variables user makes 3 clicks and gives 2 commands, when rest is done by computer brain.

jl_lt
Enthusiast
What you are wishing is probably the natural progression of technology (AEC software technology at least), which tends to wrap up current processes in the background while adding another layer of complexity:

draft by hand >> computer asisted design >> 3d modeling >> BIM >> parametric/algorithmic design (which is where we are now) >>> ??draft by hand and the computer generates all the necesary algorithms to churn out a complete project?????

with every step of technology being able to generate all the previous outputs automatically or semiautomatically. But right now, you still have to give your input, input in output out. you still need to sit down and create your BIM model or your Grasshopper algorithm in order to automate things. And most importantly, you need to know what you are doing, or else, the best computer in the world wont help you. (as a side note, my guess is current Pritzker winners, Lacaton and Vassal, dont have much use for this algorithmic stuff).

So, to my knowledge, what you want is currently not available, at least to the general public, so its pointless to lambast Archicad for it or wish Archicad was something it is not.

When the next technological step comes it can come from anywhere, not necesarily the AEC software companies. So this tecnology you mention wont save or make Archicad better because when and if it arrives it will be eventually adopted by many companies, not just Graphisoft.

One of the goals of this thread, i think, is to discuss ways for Archicad to grow its market share. Hopefully it will survive until that next technology leap comes.

Podolsky
Mentor
I think that technology will come very soon. If AI is appearing in every new car, even in smartphones - to adjust colours of photos, why it cannot enter AEC industry?
The complicity of AI in AEC is data base. Most of AI we know today are operating by text and pixels. This is not the case in AEC software. It needs to operate via parametric objects. What I'm asking here - is to prepare to such a switch and have operable parametric objects via AI. Something like that.

And, by the way, to increase market share - Graphisoft shall introduce the ways how to connect non-ArchiCAD users to BIM server. I guess it can be full integration of IFC on BIM server. Then via plug-ins engineers can work on the same live model from Tekla, Revit etc. in Teamwork.

So, currently I'm out of ideas. If I will have more - I'll write it down.

jl_lt
Enthusiast
Podolsky wrote:
I think that technology will come very soon.
It certainly is within the realm of possibility. I wouldnt be holding my breath though.

runxel
Mentor
Still believing in AI, huh?
[scnr]

AC 24 [ger] | Win 10 | Developer of the GDL plugin for Sublime Text |
«Furthermore, I consider that Carth... yearly releases must be destroyed»

Podolsky
Mentor
It's not about believing in AI, it's about to develop AI.

New feature from Revit 2021:

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/revit-products/learn-explore/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2021/EN...

Can we have something better in ArchiCAD?

Emre Senoglu
Advocate
Just to add to what Podolsky is saying, here's a quick video of the tool in action:


Whether or not this is well implemented in Revit I don't know, but from a first look, it seems like an interesting tool that would be certainly of use to bigger practices, and perhaps even small ones. Not saying this is the most important tool needed in AC, but it is a very good example of AI implementation.
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jl_lt
Enthusiast
i have seen that. its very interesting with lots of potential, something at the dawn of the realm of what mr podolsky describes; lets hope it can eventually go beyond doing options for modular furnishing for ultra modular buildings

Anonymous
Not applicable
Where i live nothing should be done because they have about 90% share, i am in the french part of Switerland and i have been working with archicad since version 11.

I regularly check for available architectural designers jobs and i don't remember when was the last time i saw a company asking for Revit 3D designers, i do not know one single Revit user, Archicad dominates in the french part but probably in the german part Revit 3D has a bigger share.

Laszlo Nagy
Community Admin
Community Admin
Hi guys,

This discussion started going in the direction of Artificial Intelligence, which has another thread dedicated to it. I have moved these posts to that other thread, so please continue discussing AI there:

https://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=72750&start=50
....................................................................................................
Laszlo Nagy, Lead Moderator, Community Admin
Get Archicad Tips at https://twitter.com/laszlonagy
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Loving Archicad since 1995

jl_lt
Enthusiast
Thanks Lazlo.

So, after all this techno chatter about AI and automation, i can conclude that, while we shouldnt expect to be substituted by a computer any time soon (too bad, i wanted to be an early retiree), there are definitely many many things that can and should be more automated by now.

I would start with the following, other might have other priorities:

-Dimensioning and anotation processes in Archicad
-Pattern iteration (curtain walls, flooring, etc)
-Organization of ID, and layers of the project
-Layout generation and positioning
-Shedules creations (yes, even more automation)
-More linking beetween geometry, axis and levels so its easier to modify projects and handle bigger projects
-Dedicated detailing tools

Anonymous
Not applicable
Less opaque linkages between Grasshopper and creating Archicad elements. By this I mean:
* Better, more complete tutorials
* Examples of converting parametric curved (ellipsoid for example) "box frame" structures in Grasshopper into actual walls and roofs in Archicad so that doors and window openings can be placed.

Greater flexibility in creating shaped walls (NOT just curtain walls) which are able to be generated in Grasshopper and that follow parametrically created 3D shapes.

The ability to create actual Design Twins of wall construction. For example wall construction which comprises hollow cells either created in Archicad or in Grasshopper and that can be saved in a format applicable to 3D printing.

Way more extensive capabilities in Param-O so that elements (including fully functional walls) of any type, shape, angle, etc. can be created.

The rapid evolution of architecture/design practice bringing together the financing, engineering, manufacture and fabrication of entire structures is already happening. Tools which support and expand this by the routine integration of a wide range of analytic and generative capabilities (structures, HVAC, MEP, Energy, Carbon analysis, geoSpatial systems etc) will enable Archicad to be a key system of choice.

Josh Verran
Advocate
A road map of upcoming features and releases.
Rather than waiting for the release of each version to find out what has been added.
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bouhmidage
Advocate
I think, jumping to the pole position in the AEC is a "dream" for archicad, that can't be achieved at least in the 5 coming years, Autodesk is dominating architecture, structure, MEP and now GIS, and graphisoft, or nemestcheck, alone , cant fight this huge wave.
in 2014, render legion created corona renderer, a rendering engine for 3ds max, it was a very basic rendering engine, with some good features, not competitve to Vray, but it do the job,
in 2016, corona render V1 was released, and it was a BOMB in the Archviz market, a LOT of Vray users moved to corona, for one simple reason : no render settings , all works great by default, Vray need too much of settings to deliver a good render,
November 2017, Render legion joined chaos group ( vray ) and they announced a cooperation between the two competitor companies, CG artists thought it was the end of corona, and Vray will kill it's competitor,
now we are in 2021, and since 2017, every release of corona render brings new functionnalities, new technology, and compatibility with Vray, with a stronger development road, and an open roadmap,

if this would be reproduced with Graphisoft and Autodesk, for cooperation and developpment purposes, that would be a Huge gain for the community, Graphisoft remain under nemestcheck, but cooperate with it's rival, revit,

looks impossible, yes, but why not !
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Archicad 23

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furtonb
Advocate
Even the Corona for Archicad project was abandoned due to struggling development. The Vray for Archicad never even happened AFAIK. Now Pollination being on the verge of being released, there were only tangential remarks from development when the AC plugin would be released (the Revit plugin being demoed already) in one of their webinars.

Feels like that most useful technologies are being kept away from Archicad as a "platform". The Rhino+GH connection's (which could bridge a huge gap at least) development feels awkwardly slow. It was a good idea years ago - look what happened with Rhino.Inside.Revit since then.

So yeah, collaboration would be nice...
actively using: AC22-25 INT | Rhino6-7 | macOS / win10

Podolsky
Mentor
For me it looks like Graphisoft needs to reorganise their management structure, relations with distributors, to structure better add-ons and libraries development (maybe by creating discipline pools - when each developer knows he is making tool for landscape, visualisation, physical simulation, structure etc.) and start shipping ArchiCAD with built-in third-part Add-Ons - let say specific Add-on set and libraries for structural engineer, constructor, architect, interior designer...
Maybe launch few open-source projects - for example possibility to use TeamWork with BlenderBIM. Seek cooperation with companies like Google and Apple. Lets not to forget one very important part - ArchiCAD is running on MacOS. Revit not. That means ArchiCAD users are potentially Apple computers buyers. It's always was like that. Even in UK ArchiCAD distribution company called 'Applecore design'. If architects are giving up on ArchiCAD - some part of them automatically switching on Windows with Revit.
For me it looks like Graphisoft management system just not so flexible and possibly old. I understand that s..t happens and exists human factor, but common - when coming regional manager from Hungary with presentation of AC 6.5, looking to the stuff he brought with him - 'oh God, they gave me wrong CD! (ArchiCAD 6.0)' - this is story from 20 years ago. It time when transfer large files via internet was problematic. I think there are a lot of comic and confusing situations happens like that around the world. I heard another story - that came group of architects from India to Budapest on some event and they getting beef for lunch...
Totally commercial presentations of local representatives (with free beer and lunch) with quite primitive content.
Of course it's always possible to blame Autodesk, that they took market with Revit. But.
Today with only slogans like 'I'm loving ArchiCAD' and 'by architects for architects' you will not go far on this market.
Everyone is expecting that ArchiCAD will start to do smart steps in software engineering offering revolutionary ideas in BIM world. But not anyone is asking a question - how many today programmers are sitting and writing and testing new program functionalities? Their surrounding. How many satellite companies are working for Graphisoft? Who is developing standard ArchiCAD library and why it still so awful?
So, guys, who is making most important decisions in Graphisoft and Nemetschek - save your company, because today all that started to look 'komisch'. Or if you cannot - then just open source all ArchiCAD - worldwide communities will make from it the best BIM software in the world very very fast.

Eric Milberger
Booster
Make it even easier to create work. Where I lose time is in finding elements. Trying to find sinks and faucets like I see in the US is a chore. More More More of the elements already set to go
Eric Milberger, Architect | Master Planner
Archicad 25
AecoSim
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bouhmidage
Advocate
6 months ago, i teached archicad for a certified revit user (pro certification) who wants to just know archicad
Today i received a message from him, he said :
I'm revit ceetified pro, but, after the corse, and some personal effort, i liked archicad and never go back to revit, i got a job with archicad and i'm enjoying using it.

Graphisoft, look how users like your software, i'm teaching archicad without certification, and users like it and try to give it a chance, even with the dominance of revit, dominance due to marketing strategies.
Imagine how archicad will spread when you open worldwide training centers, approved certification centers, national standards developpers,
Having a good prodict with a "shy" marketing won't stand too long,
Archicad users community is doing a lot of effort to spread the software, cos they just LOVE IT...
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Archicad 23

Windows 10 professional

https://www.behance.net/Nuance-Architects

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