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Best solution Architectural Renders

Anonymous
Not applicable
Hi everyone,

I'd need some help in finding the best solution to create architectural renders. Example:



1) I thought in Archicad+3DsMax+V Ray.

Could you give me your advice on this? Is it necessary to create the model in Archidad and then render with 3Ds Max and V ray? or do you have other suggestions?

2) The configuration of the computer would be Intel Core™ i7 860 (2,80 GHz,caché L3 de 8 MB), Memory DDR3 de 6.144 MB (2 x 2 GB) (2 x 1 GB) 1.067 MHz, NVIDIA GeForce™ GT220 1 GB.

Thank you for any help.[/img]
26 REPLIES 26

Dwight
Newcomer
That combination is a superior solution.
Dwight Atkinson

Anonymous
Not applicable
Cinema works best with Archicad and is far more stable and easier to use.
Vray is out for Cinema now as well.
Autodesk is not your friend


Cian.

Anonymous
Not applicable
Hi Dwight and Cian and thanx for your suggestions.

I'm trying to collect as much information as possible to help me decide.
So may i ask you how do you usually work?

How do you begin working on the villa/building and with which software?
And which are the steps to follow from the idea to the final renders?

Thank you again

Roberto

Dwight
Newcomer
You need to ask what the end result of the rendering should be: design development, a final presentation work or a commercial marketing image.

And it is not only rendering engine quality to consider.

If your intent is to provide service as a photorealistic illustrator, you need to consider the accessory elements available within a given realm - like supremely accurate palm trees, for instance. Entourage elements represent the biggest investment for an illustrator, from top quality surfaces to detailed UV mapped elements of all types.

Another thing is the community of users that support your work and help solve problems. 3Ds Max is supreme in both areas. Almost every superior illustration that I see is a product of the Max/Vray school, altho I do personally prefer Cinema, working on the Mac.

If you are a designer looking to communicate design ideas, look no further than Artlantis because of simplicity and speed.

As for steps: you make your design decisions, select viewpoints showing storytelling aspect, add entourage to complete the compositions and render numerous lighting alternatives to discover the most flattering direction and color theme.

These steps SHOULD take place incrementally during the design stage since seeing the preliminary massing within a realistic context informs design. Adding and evaluating entourage and surface textures while the design develops overcomes last minute panic where bad renderings happen. This means using coffee breaks and lunch hours to generate developmental views [advantage to Artlantis since it easily updates its scenario with new design work from Archicad]

Doing any rendering in any application can become tedious the more specific your artistic needs are - the right trees turned 'just so' to frame the structure and not cast shadows on it. Most guys on this forum are happy if they get their building somewhere in the shot, but work like that repels, rather than engages viewers.

Whatever you do, understand that rendering is NOT AUTOMATIC, no matter what the seller's introsuction claims.
Dwight Atkinson

Anonymous
Not applicable
Thank you for your help.

I am a single family home builder and i'd need to create my own villas renders with commercial/marketing aim.

We have two products:

1) villas on request (so i'd need to show the client the basic exterior renders of the villa and shots of the interiors). Then according to his needs/requirements i would develop the project further.
2) Developments we build and sell.

You can take a look at www.whitehouses.it >> Properties (for ex: L'Ampolla-Villas l'Ampolla or Hospitalet-Torre)

Actually our renders are developed by a designer and we will continue working with him but i need to shape my own ideas in order to create a portfolio/catalogue of villas to show to clients (taking advantage from my own experience).
To do a rapid sketch and save the idea i used to use 3D home architect or Sketchup but they have evident limits to develop the project futher.

This is more or less the reason why i'm decided to find the best solution. I'm open to any kind of suggestion.

I checked 3Ds Max and 4D cinema and they look great.
Do you think that Archicad is the best model creator for my needs or are there other softwares to create rapidly the models?
VRay is necessary even with 3DS or 4D Cinema?

Thank you very much.
Roberto

Anonymous
Not applicable
The only reason you see so many stunning renders with Max is the fact it has been the industry standard for so long.
Now that there are so many render engines available for Cinema that is no longer the case and Cinema is becoming more and more popular in the architectural world.

Top Render engines for Cinema:
Maxwell ( slow but the best in terms of quality )
Vray ( Nearly just as good as Maxwell but much faster. Best all round)
Advanced Render 3 ( Good for beginners and fairly good quality)
Final Render and Fry Render ( I don't know much about )

If your Modeling sucks, your render will suck. The detail is in the modeling.
Get that right and your off to a winner.

Cian.

Karl Ottenstein
Moderator
beibbs wrote:
I am a single family home builder and i'd need to create my own villas renders with commercial/marketing aim...

...Actually our renders are developed by a designer and we will continue working with him but i need to shape my own ideas in order to create a portfolio/catalogue of villas to show to clients (taking advantage from my own experience).
To do a rapid sketch and save the idea i used to use 3D home architect or Sketchup but they have evident limits to develop the project futher.

...Do you think that Archicad is the best model creator for my needs or are there other softwares to create rapidly the models?
Hi Roberto,

I agree with all that Dwight said (of course). Looking at the three renders that you pointed out on your site, I would have to say that all three suffer from not following a mantra that Dwight has used for many years, and in his first book in 2002: "Think like a Photographer" ... which should be adjusted to 'Think like a photographer with good lenses'. The framing and the distortion in the Villa images is pretty bad in my opinion - and that kind of thing has nothing to do with the modeler or the rendering engine. It is the most common error we see in user images here - worrying about getting the water to look right when the entire scene just is not framed well. (Photography is art, and art is opinion of course!)

The images suffer the common errors of having wood grain go the wrong direction (in the columns, e.g.), over-saturation, entourage not necessarily reflecting the lighting of the scene (the cutout people), etc. These errors are not corrected by software, but by the operator - so changing software will not fix them - only attention to detail will.

Looking at these projects, I do think that ArchiCAD would allow rapid modeling of these kinds of things - faster than SketchUp or 3D Home Architect and with more flexibility, especially since you can get your full construction documents out. But, that speed only follows the slower speed of the learning curve.

Similarly, while Max and C4D are wonderful - talk about a learning curve to use them well - and the extra expense for quality entourage and shaders, as Dwight mentions. They are tools for specialists. Artlantis, with drag and drop simplicity, is better for the occasional user and showing customers possibilities on the fly. But, while the results can be very good - they cannot match Max/C4D, etc. So, when you say 'need to create your own renders' as a homebuilder, I guess I have to ask if you mean have your staff or your designer do this - or if you are really a tech geek and want to jump into this yourself?

Cheers,
Karl
One of the forum moderators   •   AC 25 USA and earlier   •   MacOS 11.6.2, iMac Pro

Anonymous
Not applicable
Hi Karl,

thanx for the suggestions.

I'd like to do the renders myself because when someonelse do it for you, the result is never what you really wanted.

This is why i'm trying to understand what is the best solution and the most efficient.
As Cian and Dwight seem to confirm the best solution for my needs seems to be: create the home in Archicad, then use 3Ds or 4D Cinema with Vray as render engine.

And i'm also trying to understand what to do exactly with each of the 3 softwares: which tasks should i do in Archicad, which ones in 3Ds max and which ones in Vray.

So all the suggstions are welcomed!

Thanx for the help!

Dwight
Newcomer
Once you build the basic model in Archicad, you will add trees and other supremely realistic entourage in 3Ds Max, then you render the scene in Vray....

Or, start by building the model in Archicad, become thoroughly disappointed in Archicad's tree collection, try to render with Archicad's built-in LightWorks.
Then move on to:

build the model in Archicad, render it in the free two week Artlantis trial and then decide if you need better results.

Etc.
Dwight Atkinson

Wokka
Newcomer
beibbs wrote:
Hi Karl,



And i'm also trying to understand what to do exactly with each of the 3 softwares: which tasks should i do in Archicad, which ones in 3Ds max and which ones in Vray.

So all the suggstions are welcomed!

Thanx for the help!
Gday,
I use ArchiCad/C4D/Vray combination daily.
My workflow is
- Do all the main building parts with ArchiCad, (walls, slabs, roof, windows, doors etc using plugins for detail from Cadimage ie roof tiles, gutters, downpipes etc).
- Import into C4D with the great 3rd party plugin, setup lighting, materials, camera etc. You can use the ArchiCad cameras to help but the C4D ones are far more powerfull. Also import furniture, trees, bushes etc
- Use the Vray rendering engine with Vray lights and camera tags
- If you have changes in ArchiCad, reimport the new model and all the existing materials and textures in C4D are reapplied to the new model.

Cheers
Warwick Lloyd-Martin
3 D E N V I R O N M E N T

www.3de.com.au

> Windows 7 Pro 64bit
> i7 CPU 920-2.67Ghz
> 6GB RAM
> ATI Radeon HD 5700

>ArchiCad 4.55>20 AUS
>Cinema 4D R18
>VRAYforC4D R1.9

Anonymous
Not applicable
Hi everyone,

i see you all agree on the combination of Archicad and 4D cinema or 3DS and vray.

Thanx to your suggestions it's almost clear the workflow too.

1-What do you think about sketchup pro instead of Archicad?Could it give similar results or is too much "basic"?And what about Revit Or Autocad architecture? I'm asking to be sure that Archicad is the best modeler and go for it withouth doubts.

2-I'm checking the web to compare Artlantis-4D and 3DS. My first impression is that Artlantis is a step lower even if results are good and 3Ds a bit more impressive than 4D Cinema but maybe because 3Ds is the industry standard and there is much more material in the web.

Roberto

Anonymous
Not applicable
If your going to produce 3D images on a daily bases, Archicad Cinema / 3Ds Max and Vray are the way to go. ( This is not a cheap solution, trust me )

If you are only doing it now and again and want to save yourself a lot of cash, Sketchup Pro and Artlantis is what you want.

Download the demos and see what work best for you.

Cian.

Anonymous
Not applicable
Yes, for what i see it will not be cheap neither economically nor in matter of time.
But i'm afraid that i'm going to invest time in Sketchup/Artlantis too and when i'm done the limitations would be a lot and i would need to upgrade to Archicad+Cinema or 3dsMax and Vray.

What does Archicad that doesn't do Sketchup and what does 4D Cinema that doesn't do Artlantis?

Thanks for all these suggestions, you are helping a lot.

Roberto

Anonymous
Not applicable
Hi everyone and thanx for your suggestions.
I was surfing the web to reach a conclusion about the best software for my needs but this looks really complicated!

I'm pretty sure Archicad is the most complete solution to create the model.
I will use Sketchup just to save the sketches.

For the rendering solution to combine with Archicad i'm still undecided between Artlantis, 3Ds+Vray and Cinema 4D+Vray.
I was pretty sure to choose Archicad+ 4D Cinema Architecture Edition +Vray but studying the products in internet new doubts came out:

1) What does 4D Cinema offer more than 3D Max?(I love the Sketch and Toon module)

2) I was sure Artlantis wasn't enough but I found some really good renderings made with Artlantis that made me think. You all agree that Artlantis is really good and fast. So after seeing these renderings...

3) What about the trees, materials, libraries and other realistic entourage in 4D, 3Ds and Artlantis?Which one offers more?

4)Where do you setup the plot, the shape of the garden etc, in Archicad?

Muchas Gracias!
Archicad-Artlantis-1240418914 1.jpg

Dwight
Newcomer
You are really starting to split hairs with your questions, since many of these issues are matters of personal taste. AND it seems to me that your inexperience will work against you in learning a complex rendering tool from the getgo.

I suggest that you get the Artlantis demo and play with it for two weeks, then decide if you should progress to other tools.
Dwight Atkinson

Karl Ottenstein
Moderator
Dwight wrote:
I suggest that you get the Artlantis demo and play with it for two weeks, then decide if you should progress to other tools.
...and I cannot recall that the demo comes with the standard shader package/etc? So, do not judge by the included shaders. Be sure to go through the many tutorials on the Artlantis web site. And, if you have your own texture images from your prior render projects ... be sure to follow the tutorial on how to create your own shaders.

Cheers,.
Karl
One of the forum moderators   •   AC 25 USA and earlier   •   MacOS 11.6.2, iMac Pro

Anonymous
Not applicable
Ok you are right. I'm starting to split hairs and there's so much material out in the web that you can get really confused.
I'll try Artlantis,see how it works and if it's the right solution !

Thanx!

Roberto

Anonymous
Not applicable
Hi Roberto

I hear this question all the time - especially in my line of work; what is the best visualization pipeline for...
As a former ArchiCAD and C4D user - with extensive knowledge of a variety of rendering engines, including: Lightworks, Artlantis, V-ray, Mental-Ray, Maxwell and Render Man - I'd like to introduce you to another option you may find useful.

I am referring to StudioGPU's MachStudio Pro -MachStudio Pro

It has a seamless integration with ArchiCAD - as well as most other 3D industry standard applications - and FBX, which will make bringing in entourage assets a snap. Further more, in terms of visual flexibility, it will provide a range all the way from toon style shaders, to the photo real.

Best of all, it's by far the fastest rendering engine out there, capable of delivering full HD images in few seconds - or sub seconds! - by using the power of the GPU.

It won't give you to image quality of Maxwell, but it'll be close enough, and will provide you with all the flexibility and ease to put Dwight's instructions into practice - as a matter of fact, since it is a raster based engine - a theatrical tool - which is driven by artistic sensibility (as opposed to physical simulation) it will force you to "think like a photographer" and will teach you a thing or two about rendering while you're at it.

Anonymous
Not applicable
Hi everyone,
thanks to your suggestions i decided for the solution Sketchup pro/Archicad with Artlantis.

I choose Artlantis for the good quality (yet not at 4D Cinema or 3Ds Max level but anyway a very good quality) and because it is easier to learn and faster to render.

I'm almost done with the PC configuration too:

DELL STUDIO XPS 800 DT:
Intel Core™ i7 860 (2,80 GHz,caché L3 de 8 MB), Memory DDR3 de 6.144 MB (2 x 2 GB) (2 x 1 GB) 1.067 MHz.

I only have a doubt: which is the best graphic card i should choose for Artlantis? I searched the forum but could not find an answer.

In the Dell XPS 8000 i can choose between a Geforce GT220 (1GB) or a Geforce GTS240 (1GB). Which one of the two is the best or would it be better a Nvidia Quadro?

Thank you!

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