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If Vectorworks gets this, will Graphisoft?

rm
Advocate
Interesting announcement from Lightworks. I hope Graphisoft is monitoring this board concerning the many users' request for a better rendering engine.

http://www.architosh.com/news/2003-12/2003c-1203-lightworks74.phtml

I can't seem to get my arms around how much bang for the buck VectorWorks offers compared to ArchiCAD.

In my opinion, major ommissions in ArchiCAD include no high speed or radiosity rendering engine or support, no real terrain modeling tools (mesh tool is much to primative), and limited ability to edit in 3D (no rotate, no lathe, no nurbs) with out GDL.

Let Graphisoft hear you......there is strength in numbers!

RM
Robert Mariani
MARIANI design studio, PLLC
Architecture / Architectural Photography
www.robertmariani.com

Mac OSX 11.6
AC 24 / 25
10 REPLIES 10

rm
Advocate
Interesting announcement from Lightworks. I hope Graphisoft is monitoring this board concerning the many users' request for a better rendering engine.

http://www.architosh.com/news/2003-12/2003c-1203-lightworks74.phtml

I can't seem to get my arms around how much bang for the buck VectorWorks offers compared to ArchiCAD.

In my opinion, major ommissions in ArchiCAD include no high speed or radiosity rendering engine or support, no real terrain modeling tools (mesh tool is much to primative), and limited ability to edit in 3D (no rotate, no lathe, no nurbs) with out GDL.

Let Graphisoft hear you......there is strength in numbers!

RM
Robert Mariani
MARIANI design studio, PLLC
Architecture / Architectural Photography
www.robertmariani.com

Mac OSX 11.6
AC 24 / 25

Geoff Briggs
Advocate
While VectorWorks has quite a few things worth copying and has become a decent boolean and now NURBS modeler, it's not in the same league as ArchiCAD in terms of Building Information Modeling. So if you want to model furniture, as I used to do in VectorWorks, it's great. But if you need to produce CDs for a high end residence you're better off with AutoCad, and much better off with ArchiCAD.

But the issue here is not so much bang for the buck or how good or not VectorWorks itself is. Rather it's the fact that a moderately priced CAD package can have a better rendering engine than a high-end BIM application. They do because they simply bought it, just like formZ, Ashlar Cobalt, ProE...
Regards,

Geoff Briggs

DeForest Architects

Seattle, USA



AC25 INT, Mac (home), Win10 (work)

Yes, you read that correctly, we are in the US but use the INT version, because the libraries are better.

rm
Advocate
Geoff wrote:
While VectorWorks has quite a few things worth copying and has become a decent boolean and now NURBS modeler, it's not in the same league as ArchiCAD in terms of Building Information Modeling. So if you want to model furniture, as I used to do in VectorWorks, it's great. But if you need to produce CDs for a high end residence you're better off with AutoCad, and much better off with ArchiCAD.

Good points Geoff!

......... Rather it's the fact that a moderately priced CAD package can have a better rendering engine than a high-end BIM application. They do because they simply bought it, just like formZ, Ashlar Cobalt, ProE...
Again, another good point. However, it surprises me that we are still waiting for this ability! Geoff, most of my projects are upper bracket residential clients, and yes producing a solid set of CD's is very important to me. However, my clients are becoming increasingly aware of architects' abilities to produce "Photo Releastic" renderings, and they are assuming that we all can do it easily.

Artlantis has had its time and place in my practice, but for the level of rendering I am trying to get to, it just doesn't cut it anymore......and unfortunately the learning curves in C4D, Electric Image, or Lightworks seem very steep, not to mention the cost of the programs both in purchase cost and down time.

The last thing I need to do is learn, maintain, and update one more costly program. We as architects continue to raise our cost of doing business at a rate the exceeds most clients willingness to pay for..........thats a whole nother topic........remember lead, mylar, and mayline, and occasional spilled coffee on a drawing due in an hour.......the good old days!

Regards,
Architects Design Forum, Ltd.
RM
Robert Mariani
MARIANI design studio, PLLC
Architecture / Architectural Photography
www.robertmariani.com

Mac OSX 11.6
AC 24 / 25

Geoff Briggs
Advocate
I agree whole heartedly. RenderWorks has improved markedly and the incorporation of the new Lightworks stuff will probably be great, but believe me if you had to do your building model in VectorWorks after working in ArchiCAD you'd be crying.

As it stands, the vanilla flavor of VectorWorks + RenderWorks is a great package if you're doing industrial design stuff and don't want to pay for the high end stuff. Sort of formZ light and CAD combined.

But after spending a couple years using VectorWorks Architect for building models and document sets ... let's just say I shelled out for my own ArchiCAD license and started teaching myself in my spare time

Anyone who's spent any time in these forums knows I'm a prolific wish poster. While amazed at what we can do compared with a few years ago I am also eternally dissatisfied with CAD and software in general. I'd just be wary of the grass-is-always-greener trap.

For the work we do ArchiCAD offers the most possibility. Yes, there's a thousand things Graphisoft could do to make it better. And yes, they should seriously consider licensing Lightworks and get world class technology, constantly improving, that they don't have to worry about.
Regards,

Geoff Briggs

DeForest Architects

Seattle, USA



AC25 INT, Mac (home), Win10 (work)

Yes, you read that correctly, we are in the US but use the INT version, because the libraries are better.

Anonymous
Not applicable
If graphisoft can reply - is not our job to offer professional rendering engine, others addons or complementary soft. can be bought separately - is more honest to specify on archicad product description his MEDIUM quality renderings,
A such omission can disappoint all archicad users regarding
the graphisoft commercial style.

rm
Advocate
archibaldo wrote:
.... - is more honest to specify on archicad product description his MEDIUM quality renderings,
A such omission can disappoint all archicad users regarding
the graphisoft commercial style.
Archibaldo, I would appreciate some clarification to your post.

A: Are you suggesting we as customers don't have the right to expect improvements in the software we use....I hope not.

B: Is the attached partial quote to be taken that you feel that the problem is the users' rendering ability as noted by YOUR grade of "MEDIUM", which would be an unforturnate choice of words. Or, rather are you suggesting that "MEDIUM" is the best that can be expected from the software?

rm
Robert Mariani
MARIANI design studio, PLLC
Architecture / Architectural Photography
www.robertmariani.com

Mac OSX 11.6
AC 24 / 25

Djordje
Advisor
rm wrote:
A: Are you suggesting we as customers don't have the right to expect improvements in the software we use....I hope not.

B: Is the attached partial quote to be taken that you feel that the problem is the users' rendering ability as noted by YOUR grade of "MEDIUM", which would be an unforturnate choice of words. Or, rather are you suggesting that "MEDIUM" is the best that can be expected from the software?
My reading:

A: Of course not; we do have every right to exepct and ask for improvement.

B: The software's rendering as it is is medium; archibaldo probably wsnted to say that for high end rendering, one can use high end rendering application.

Then comes the user's proficiency with a particular software. That is not the responsibility of any software manufacturer ...
Djordje



ArchiCAD since 4.55 ... 1995
HP Omen

Anonymous
Not applicable
In architectural practice the architect must have visual succes against the concurence to win the projects and after that do a good and complete project .Without visual excelence many architects loose clients. Is a fact .
Archicad renderings are good for a cheaper program .
Because archicad use a lot of visual capabilities (vr.object ...etc )at an "common- not high end level " it seems for this point of vue a COMMERCIAL BUNDLE of medium tools .
No matter wich high end rendering software i use i want that a professional architectural software like archicad have professional top quality rendering performance inside (superior or at least equal with Art.lantis )
Is not an mechanical software -but a visual professional tool and i want to work inside archicad : av-works is NOT as good as Art.lantis but Abvent say that it brings Art.lantis engine inside Archicad .
I don't say that Archicad is not the best , but i want to have professional renderings in this price not only a "common" architectural images .
I know that in the future archicad will have this ability and at that time graphisoft and moderator too will say that is natural to have native hight end renderings inside.
With the sketch rendering engine effort is clear that graphisoft
team want to escuse the STAGNATION of his rendering engine across the last versions. I will prefer the optimization of the existing one . I accept this for the moment
for the OPENGL big step and the ALL OTHER big improvments but i expect that my favorite software kill the concurrence.

Anonymous
Not applicable
Is AV-Works for AC8 expected to be an improved program or merely an adaptation to AC8? Also, have those that use AVwokrs had to hold off upgrading to AC8 or find another rendering solution for AC8??


Rashid..

Newcomer.. using Datacad but looking at CA, Revit, and AC..

Anonymous
Not applicable
For info Av-works 2.1 for ArchiCAD 8.1 is available for testing at:

http://www.abvent.com/us/software/avworks/avw2.asp

Refraction, reflection, raytracing, depth of filed, atmosphere, a set of 49 lamps which include Global illumination, soft shadows…

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