Photorender size constraints

[Link]

It seems that photorendered images will only generate to the extents of the 3D window. If my 3D window is, say, 800x800, so it fits nicely on my second monitor next to my navigator, navigator preview and 3D navigation control box, but I want a photorenderd image on a 30x42 sheet, then I need to create that image at, say 3600x3600 (@150 dpi). The image within that photorender will only ever get to be 800x800.

Am I missing something blatantly obvious or is this a problem?

Any advice or workaround ideas would be appreciated. But we need these images to be automatically updateable in PM, as per all the other views.

Cheers,
Link.

AC8.1 PM 3.1

[Anonymous]

Link wrote:
Am I missing something blatantly obvious or is this a problem?

I haven't tested such a large size now by by printing, but it seems that when you adjust the size of the image AND the resolution, in the Photorendering Settings, this would automatically adjust the printed output size.

[Anonymous]

Link ... ?

Are you sure that you're not accidentally pressing the 'size to 3d window' button in the 'photorendering settings' dialogue box??

You should also check that you haven't got the checkbox for 'keep same proportions as 3d window' checked??

For ME, it doesn't seem that "photorenderings will only generate to the extent of the 3d window" ... are you sure you haven't 'missed' the scrollbars at the sides?? The window is only that size but the image is larger...

Are you on a Mac?

I must confess to _not_ having done a _lot_ of huge 'photorealistic' rendering in AC (?!?!) but have produced some large (4000x4000) sketch outputs...

HTH - Stuart

[MMontgomery]

When rendering an image that size, ArchiCAD will create a window that will fit on the screen for it to render in, but you should notice some scroll bars on the right and bottom edges. It may seem that it is only rendering the size of the screen, but if your photo-rendering settings are set correctly (3600 x 3600 & 150dpi) then the resulting image will be the correct size.

You should also notice the rendering time is dramatically longer than an 800 x 800 rendering as well.

HTH

[Link]

Okay,

I don't think I made myself clear. Hopefully these images will help clear it up.

The plan vies shows the extents of the camera. The next view, is of the 3D window extents. And the final view is where the problem lies. The cropping down of the photorender to the 3D window extents.

I'm not saying this is new, but is causing my client serious problems, in the creation of an intricate and very comprehensive customized template.

Cheers,
Link.

[Djordje]

Link wrote:
The plan vies shows the extents of the camera. The next view, is of the 3D window extents. And the final view is where the problem lies. The cropping down of the photorender to the 3D window extents.

You cannot render anything that is not seen in the 3D window. IMHo not possible in any software, please correct me if I am wrong. Therefore, the rendering window has to be proportional to the 3D window in order not to have any blank background colored areas around the rendering.

The problem here is, you can "zoom" out in the 3D window, effectively creating a blank margin space around your 3D view. Not good if you don't want it.

In the screenshots attached, it is obvious that:

- the proportions of the 3D window and the rendering window are not the same

- the proprotions of the rendering window are more suited to a panorama than a single shot

If your client wants to see a lot in the width, but not much in height, reshape the 3D window accordingly, and move the camera out so that its view angle includes all that should be seen. Beware of very wide view angles - fisheye lenses that are built in software usually are not so called "shift" lenses that can correct perspective aberations.

Don't forget: standard 35mm cameras have image aspect ration of 24x36mm, or simply 2:3. DIN paper sizes have 1.41 ratios. Panoramas are QUITE a different ballgame.

HTH,

[Anonymous]

Link,

Further to Djordje's comments, imagine that the photo window will only show an image which is -proportional- in size to the 3d window.

If you make your photo window 3600x3600 rather than 1200x400 then you will probably have happier results ...

HTH - Stuart

[Link]

Thanks guys,

I appreciate your replies. Experience shows that what you both say is true, but I thought there may be a tricky workaround to get the results I need. What is especially frustrating is that you can stretch the 3D window and see the rest of the model! Unfortunately stretching or resizing the 3D window is not an option.

I have heard of people turning their camera away from the model to generate the 3D view, then simply turning their camera around in another program (ie. Artlantis) which makes for speedy 3D generation times. I thought maybe I could do the same thing for this, but it doesn't look like it.

And as zooming out is not an option in our case either, I guess I will have to have two cameras for each 3D view. One close, and one further away.

Thanks again.

Cheers,
Link.

[Anonymous]

Link wrote:
Unfortunately stretching or resizing the 3D window is not an option.

If you don't mind my asking, why not?

And as zooming out is not an option in our case either, I guess I will have to have two cameras for each 3D view. One close, and one further away.

Again, why not? Why not just widen the view cone to get more in the image?
Maybe I misunderstood something

[Link]

Why not? Well, to cut a long story short, I am working with a client who wants to create custom house plans in under 10 hours. The template we are creating is very extensive. It has prelinked views of every kind into a 64 page multi-option, multi-scheme layout book, including floor plans, schedules, sections, elevations, details, interactive schedules and these 3D photorendered views. As the model is populated in AC, it is automatically reflected and positioned perfectly on sheets in PM. It is a highly efficient system and makes him over 600% more productive than his nearest competitors. We have it so dialed in, that having him constantly resizing his 3D window would seriously hamper his quick production times. This problem is our biggest hurdle to overcome in our final stages of development.

That's why.

I will post the result we come up with, hopefully it'll be something special.

Cheers,
Link.

[Djordje]

Link wrote:
As the model is populated in AC, it is automatically reflected and positioned perfectly on sheets in PM.///We have it so dialed in, that having him constantly resizing his 3D window would seriously hamper his quick production times. This problem is our biggest hurdle to overcome in our final stages of development.

Well ... if the houses are more or less of similar size (which they presumably are, otherwise plans, S/E could not automatically fit) then you should also decide on the size and shape of the 3D window, predefine 3D views, and set the photorendering window to be proportional to the 3D window.

Alternatively, you probably work on the largest house, so set the views for it, and all the smaller ones will fit.

Orchestra (violas included)!

Or am I utterly, completely and hopelessly skiing down the wrong dune?

[Karl Ottenstein]

I'm on the same page as Djordje here, Link ... cannot really understand why the size of the 3D window is even an issue from your description ... perhaps a screenshot that illustrates a problem?

Cheers,
Karl

[Anonymous]

Cool
We've got a less sophisticated version for our templates, sketch renderings and all. But, like they said, the views still have to be tweaked for every project. Good Luck!

[Link]

Hey Karl

If you take a look at the image I uploaded in an earlier post, you'll see what I mean. I really can't explain it better than that image shows it. Basically we want the sketch render to show more information than the 3D window. It's all there in the 3D window, because we can stretch it, or pan around and see it. Obviously we don't usually want AC to render more than is needed, but I think if we specify the photorender window to be bigger than the 3D window, then AC should photorender what we specify - not relate back to only what is shown in the 3D window. Zooming and/or resizing the 3D window is not really an option - what if we have two photorenders from the same 3D window for example. And both are prelinked into a layout book?

This is a unique case, and I don't really want to waste any more time with it. Thanks for everyone's input though! It's much appreciated and always a pleasure to correspond with you all.

Cheers,
Link.

[Karl Ottenstein]

Link wrote:
Hey Karl

If you take a look at the image I uploaded in an earlier post, you'll see what I mean. I really can't explain it better than that image shows it. Basically we want the sketch render to show more information than the 3D window. It's all there in the 3D window, because we can stretch it, or pan around and see it. Obviously we don't usually want AC to render more than is needed, but I think if we specify the photorender window to be bigger than the 3D window, then AC should photorender what we specify - not relate back to only what is shown in the 3D window. Zooming and/or resizing the 3D window is not really an option - what if we have two photorenders from the same 3D window for example. And both are prelinked into a layout book?

Ah. Sorry. Somehow had missed that image and Djordje's reply to it - problem with this new system...had read the beginning of the thread, then when logged back on there was a flurry of messages and didn't realize I had missed some in the middle!

I agree again with Djordje's reply after the image post. The camera that you show in plan is set with a view extent that will clip the wings of the structure exactly as shown in the 3D window ... and exactly as shown in the sketch window. If the proportions of the render window (not the size, the proportions) are different from those of the 3D window, you will get margins as Djordje points out. If you want the panorama, different camera settings are needed (probably moving the camera back to avoid distortion)...and a panoramic shapped 3D window, etc.

Where I think you're going to run into trouble is an issue that I've interacted with GS on since 8R1 and that is that linking to renderings from PM just doesn't work - you get crappy 72dpi jpeg images.

To get a quality image into PM, the workaround even now in 8.1R1 is to use Publisher in AC to publish the views (renderings) to appropriate file formats (tiff, png, a higher quality jpeg compression, etc)...since in Publisher, you can specify all of those details. With linking from PM, there is no control at the moment.

This sucks of course, since anything from the 3D window or photorender engines needs to be published from AC for quality, while all other drawing elements can be linked from PM.

There is hope for the future, as I believe Graphisoft has listened on this one.

HTH,
Karl

[Djordje]

Link wrote:
Basically we want the sketch render to show more information than the 3D window.

No way , Jose What is seen in the 3D window defines what is to be rendered.

Sorry, can't be done.

Anyway - make a Publisher set in the template, with 3D views preset. CAUTION - the 3D views do NOT change the rendering engine (duuuh!) but use the current settings. IMHO a BIG thing to miss (used to work beautifully with 3D QuickViews in 7).

Good luck,