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Twinmotion for 23

Barry Kelly
Moderator
Has anyone heard any news as to when the free version of Twinmotion for Archicad 23 is going to be released?
I see the free current version (build 2019.6) availability time has been extended to 'Early 2020'.

Barry.

One of the forum moderators.
Versions 6.5 to 25
Dell XPS- i7-6700 @ 3.4Ghz, 16GB ram, GeForce GTX 960 (2GB), Windows 10
Dell Precision 3510 - i7 6820HQ @ 2.70GHz, 16GB RAM, AMD FirePro W5130M, Windows 10
47 REPLIES 47

Lingwisyer
Virtuoso
rm wrote:
In my opinion, the low cost to get into TM, if you buy it, is because Epic Games knows this is just a paid Beta, that is not ready for prime time!

From my minimal experience with TM, that is also my opinion. My only complaint about the Lumion library is the lack of ability to get usable Australian trees.



Ling.
AC18-23 AUS 7000
Self-taught, bend it till it breaks.
Win10 | E5620 x 2 | 24GB | K2200

Richard Morrison
Advocate
I can't believe someone is complaining about the quality of the trees in Twinmotion, which is already far better than anything we've had before, and is FREE, besides.

It reminds me of a joke about two people in a free food line. One says, "This food is terrible." The other responds, "Yeah, and such small portions, too!"
Richard
--------------------------
Richard Morrison, Architect-Interior Designer
"The Kitchen Architect"
http://www.richardmorrison.com
AC24 (since AC6.0), Win10

Something something "Beggars" something something "Choosers"

My only concern with getting into a Twinmotion workflow is doing so with the realization that this (free version situation,(as nice as it is) is a one time deal (only for version 23)
All future versions (assuming for any version later than ArchiCAD version 24 or Twinmotion 2021 or whatever) will be paid versions on top of your ArchiCAD license fee.

So the idea is to get people hooked on the software and workflow and ease-of-use and everything with this free version, and then when time comes for an upgrade (to either the next version of ArchiCAD or TM), you won't be able to resist paying for it just to keep a workflow you're already accustomed to.
Standard operating procedure for new product and brand introduction into a new market for any clever firm.

So really, this is is more accurately a promotional free version, with emphasis on "promotional" (of the Twinmotion brand), and that's fine and everything, just as long as everyone getting excited about it is aware of this reality.

And it works to both companies' mutual benefit, of course.
Epic Games get to tap into a( heretofore untapped) market base with this whole Real-time Raytracing rendering engines that require little expertise, while Graphisoft at least get to put some gloss and shine on an otherwise lackluster version release.

In my personal opinion, most architects will really get into this.
The learning curve and overhead compared to learning and using a more professional render engine (like a Vray or Corona + 3ds Max) or outsourcing to people who can, and the concomitant savings in time, resources and finances will be too hard to resist or turn down.
And anyone capable of affording a Lumion or a more professional solution won't even bother giving this a look and will pay the money for those solutions anyway, so that's a moot point. This is something that most architects will be able to easily dump onto an intern to learn for a couple of days and save themselves (or their clients) those third party high cost rendering fees, so why not?

Richard Morrison
Advocate
The Twinmotion 2020 license (with upgrades) extends at least until Dec. 2021. Given that Epic has had a "creator's license" available for free for the Unreal engine for quite awhile (years) makes me think that their business model isn't really to get people hooked and them stick them for an exorbitant license fee. No one knows what the future will bring, of course, but Epic doesn't strike me as similar to the "Evil Empire."
Richard
--------------------------
Richard Morrison, Architect-Interior Designer
"The Kitchen Architect"
http://www.richardmorrison.com
AC24 (since AC6.0), Win10

rm
Enthusiast
The expectation was set in Las Vegas by GS. We were also promised Ray Tracing in this version. If your happy with this version of the software, by all means use it, but its not what was shown and promised so proudly by GS. As for the previous tree library, it was cartoonish at best. I actually had a client comment on how unrealistic the trees looked especially compared to Lumion.

FREE is not what I am seeking, but GS offered it. Given I pay for multiple SSA licenses, I am happy to try using TM.

The reason TM is now free and won’t be in the future, is because its not done yet. At best, this current version is a paid BETA @ $499. The 2020 update was supposed to be out in Nov. The vast Quixel assets promised to be included are currently not part of TM.

I’m not happy with average presentations, nor are my clients, have at it if you are.

Richard wrote:
I can't believe someone is complaining about the quality of the trees in Twinmotion, which is already far better than anything we've had before, and is FREE, besides.
Robert Mariani
MARIANI design studio, PLLC
Architecture / Architectural Photography
www.robertmariani.com

Mac OSX 11.6
AC 24 / 25

Richard wrote:
The Twinmotion 2020 license (with upgrades) extends at least until Dec. 2021. Given that Epic has had a "creator's license" available for free for the Unreal engine for quite awhile (years) makes me think that their business model isn't really to get people hooked and them stick them for an exorbitant license fee. No one knows what the future will bring, of course, but Epic doesn't strike me as similar to the "Evil Empire."


I'm fairly pretty certain the "upgrades" they referred to are 'service upgrades' akin to hotfixes or Service packs rather than full version upgrades.
Given that this release version is actually referred to as Twinmotion 2020.1, I would expect any future upgrades to be in the vein of Twinmotion 2020.2, 2020.3,2020.5......etc...rather than Twinmotion 2021 - which would odd if that's what they were referring to as "upgrades" when the year is just one (2021).

Also as has been mentioned and noted, the current version released is devoid of a lot of features that had been promised, which seems to imply that they released a version that wasn't fully complete ( I imagine they were facing a time-crunch and rather than lose customer/consumer-confidence - given as we are now approaching the second quarter of 2020, and they're releasing a version that had been promised for the last quarter of 2019 - they went ahead and released what they had ready at the time rather than wait to release "a" complete version. And with the aim of completing the unfinished features through service releases.
Again,...fairly common practice nowadays for a lot of software development, with others actually charging you extra for those extra "upgrade" features.

The prevailing theory is that they were having a hard time integrating the Real Time Raytracing (RTX) Engine and that's a large part of what held them back (which boggles the mind because a nondescript Chinese firm was able to easily integrate Real Time Raytracing into their upstart D5 renderer which uses the same Unreal Engine that Twinmotion now uses. But I digress).

Regardless, I wasn't suggesting there was any underhanded motive to them doing all this, in this way.
As I noted, it's fairly common business practice to release a free version of a product you hope to introduce into a fresh market that you're new to, before having priced versions later on - if for no other reason than to raise user awareness of the product (and yes, to get people accustomed and used to using it regularly).

I just tend to get the sense that lot of people here believe that going forward, having a free Twinmotion licence as part of your ArchiCAD license or subscription will be a the norm, when it's clearly not.

I think it's a great tool overall (even in it's "unfinished" form), and would work really well for most people's workflows and needs here, and I would even argue that it's superior to what we currently have out of the box in ArchiCAD in many respects even while it still lacks a lot of professional features.
But then again most people on here don't really want to waste time fussing around with settings and dialogs and whatnots that the professional tools have, so ......

Laszlo Nagy
Community Admin
Community Admin
There is a clip on YouTube from GRAPHISOFT about how to get your free Twinmotion 2020:



The first part of the clip is showing new features so if you want to watch only the steps you need to take, watch from 2:20 in the clip.
....................................................................................................
Laszlo Nagy, Lead Moderator, Community Admin
Get Archicad Tips at https://twitter.com/laszlonagy
AMD Ryzen 1700X CPU, 48 GB RAM, NVidia GTX 1060 6GB, 500 GB NVMe SSD
2x28" (2560x1440), WIN10 PRO ENG, AC20-AC25
Loving Archicad since 1995

Bercan
Newcomer
Karl wrote:
Richard wrote:
Also, I thought this was supposed to have real-time raytracing, which it doesn't. Granted, there are many improvements, but I think it was made pretty clear at last year's Las Vegas AIA convention that RT raytracing was going to be there. Nothing from GS on this?
Agree, this seems pretty weird given the promises made and the video shown of what to expect. Equally odd is that there has been no direct email from either Graphisoft or Epic about the availability of 2020 vs the promised features - yet it 2020 is available for download with (very limited) info on the Epic web site.

Re ray tracing in Twinmotion: Real-time ray trace technology for achieving high-quality photorealism is clearly the state-of-the-art technology to go with; implementing this technology into Twinmotion proved to be more limiting than beneficial though, due to many technical reasons. Also, Ray tracing funtionality is currently limited to owners of RTX cards only - we understood that our users might not have this (yet) so instead of using raytracing we drastically improved other areas in Twinmotion (photoscanned library assets, improved Global Illumination, Textures, Reflection probes etc.) which leads to the same/similar goal: achieving photorealism.

Richard Morrison
Advocate
Bercan wrote:
Also, Ray tracing funtionality is currently limited to owners of RTX cards only - we understood that our users might not have this (yet) so instead of using raytracing we drastically improved other areas in Twinmotion (photoscanned library assets, improved Global Illumination, Textures, Reflection probes etc.) which leads to the same/similar goal: achieving photorealism.
I spent many hundreds of dollars on an RTX card last year in anticipation of the Twinmotion release, which was supposed to have been released last year. Now it seems I wasted my money.
Richard
--------------------------
Richard Morrison, Architect-Interior Designer
"The Kitchen Architect"
http://www.richardmorrison.com
AC24 (since AC6.0), Win10

Nuge
Booster
I to am quite disappointed with the release of TM2020 it could have been so much more, this version look very much like a stop gap release to keep the masses happy but i think the visual quality is still very poor and the included "updated" library is quite a let down given all of the talk of how amazing it was going to be, Enscape is still my choice of rendered but they too need to lift their game particularly around allowing users to create their own library objects.

Hopefully Twinmotion have a surprise waiting for us down the line (i hope so for their sake)
AC25 i9 11900K / 128G ram / GTX 3090 / Enscape

rjwilden
Contributor
Having used TM 2020 for a bit now, am finding it very buggy, crashes often, selection tricky , and lighting and textures settings all seem to produce a different result than what I was use too in the previous version
2019.
Also a bit of help required. I would often place lighting in a scene and turn it on with daylight settings, can't seem to do this now. Is there a new setting somewhere. Thanks
Richard Wilden Design. Ltd
Dunedin, New Zealand.
Imac 27" i9 3.6GHz; 32GB Ram Mac OS 11.3
Archicad V23:V24

Richard wrote:
Bercan wrote:
Also, Ray tracing funtionality is currently limited to owners of RTX cards only - we understood that our users might not have this (yet) so instead of using raytracing we drastically improved other areas in Twinmotion (photoscanned library assets, improved Global Illumination, Textures, Reflection probes etc.) which leads to the same/similar goal: achieving photorealism.
I spent many hundreds of dollars on an RTX card last year in anticipation of the Twinmotion release, which was supposed to have been released last year. Now it seems I wasted my money.


I wouldn't so much look at is as a waste of money, per se, rather than as an investment in a kind of technology where pretty much all of Graphics/Video Card technology seems to be headed anyway.
Both the major players in the GPU space (NVIDIA and AMD) in addition to other non-traditional GPU players like Intel and even Apple have talked big game of investing development resources into the future of Ray-tracing technology not just for rendering and graphics production, but the general computing power of GPU cores that nowadays go beyond just graphics and video.

So I personally believe it's just a matter of time before other players in the field (i.e software developers, including GS themselves) follow suit and take advantage of the technology that will be available.......once its fully mature and ready.

( I mean, it wasn't that long ago when I thought that having more than one graphics card in your machine was overkill and some ways a waste of money, but nowadays it would be unthinkable for me to imagine assembling a new workstation and thinking of putting in only one Video card.)

However, your (unfortunately, sad) story reminds me of a term I used to hear some eons not too long ago in another lifetime that came with a sad cautionary tale.....

Vaporware.

For those not aware, 'vaporware' is basically just an industry term for a sales pitch that typically software companies would traffic heavily in, .....ostensibly to get buyers to invest in an as-yet not released version of this wonder-version software they were developing, which would revolutionize everything and change the way you work,..... and the whole dang world along with it.
Just as long as you paid a little premium upfront for the benefit of being a (glorified) beta-tester of sorts (aka.......a 'sucker'.....or a 'mark'.... as the technical terms go.), of a (very buggy) test version, and some more on top of that for the privilege of getting first dibs and more perks once this magic software was actually released.

....Which,.....you don't need me to tell you,.....never ever actually saw the light of day.
At least not in the form it was promised in such lavish terms.

As more questions arose, more excuses and stories followed, or, for the really imaginative and brave among the software development kin,....more fantastical promises of even newer amazing features as yet unannounced (with convincing video demos ).

At the end of the day when the whole game was revealed to be a con and that they were never actually close to realizing any of their promises, the people behind the whole scheme would go 'Poof!' with all the "investments" leaving nothing but a trail of disappointment and seething anger.

I'm not at all suggesting that this is what happened her,e or what EpicGames did (or were trying to do), but the whole experience was sadly very reminiscent for me for a bunch of start-up offshoot software tests from back in the mid 2000's to the mid 2010's.
The cautionary warning then was to not ever invest in actual software that you hadn't actually seen or tested for yourself.
Vaporware.

I guess the silver lining here is that neither the Twinmotion makers nor Graphisoft ever really extracted an actual dollar from anyone other than what they were already spending anyway (on the ArchiCAD license or a graphics card upgrade), so in that sense it's not really a "con" in the traditional sense.

But understandably the residual disappointment you feel doesn't know the difference between the two.

I don't believe your RTX investment is a waste - as hard as it may be for you to want to believe that now.

Nguyen Minh
Graphisoft Moderator
Graphisoft Moderator
rjwilden wrote:
Having used TM 2020 for a bit now, am finding it very buggy, crashes often, selection tricky , and lighting and textures settings all seem to produce a different result than what I was use too in the previous version
2019.
Also a bit of help required. I would often place lighting in a scene and turn it on with daylight settings, can't seem to do this now. Is there a new setting somewhere. Thanks
Hi Richard,

Thank you for sharing the issue and I am very sorry about the bad experience!

About the crash, unfortunately, this is beyond our control. I would suggest contacting Epic Games support first to ask their opinion about this crash. Here is the Twinmotion's support website: https://twinmotionhelp.epicgames.com/s/

I can see that there are many people reporting about this issue already, so it seems like we are having a bumpy start with Twinmotion 2020! I hope that Epic Games can deliver an answer soon for this issue!

For your question about lighting turn on with Daylight Settings, it seems like the toggle for Day Cycle has been removed somehow. There are many changes in the Light objects on Twinmotion 2020, I'm not sure whether this is one of the changes or not. Again, I suggest contacting Twinmotion support from the above website for further support regarding this question.

Once again, I am very sorry for the inconvenience that the issue is causing! Thank you very much for your understanding! I wish you a great day, and as always, stay safe!

Best regards.
Minh

Minh Nguyen
Technical Support Engineer
GRAPHISOFT

RandyC
Booster
Assets available from Megascans you will have to be on the Unreal Unlimited plan in order to
download -- Twinmotion users are allowed as per attachment
ArchiCAD 4.5 --- 25 , Win 10 , dual monitors, 64 gb ram,Nvidia GeforceRTX 2080 TI, I-9

Lingwisyer
Virtuoso
RandyC wrote:
Assets available from Megascans you will have to be on the Unreal Unlimited plan in order to
download -- Twinmotion users are allowed as per attachment

I can access all of the Megascans assets that are on the UE Marketplace for free with a basic Epic account.



Ling.
AC18-23 AUS 7000
Self-taught, bend it till it breaks.
Win10 | E5620 x 2 | 24GB | K2200

SenecaDesignLLC
Booster
not using the direct link drastically reduces crashes. And if set up right it's almost as fast to just import fbx files
AC 24, Twinmotion current, Windows 11, Msi 10UG with rtx 3070, wacom intuos pro m, Wacom Cintiq Pro 16, razer Tartarus pro.

rjwilden
Contributor
Yes have already discovered that brining in the mesh as a fbx reduces the crashes to a manageable level.
However not having direct link with the building model would be a drawback. How do you update the model if using fbx
Richard Wilden Design. Ltd
Dunedin, New Zealand.
Imac 27" i9 3.6GHz; 32GB Ram Mac OS 11.3
Archicad V23:V24

Lucian
Newcomer
Hey guys!
I don't know if you thought about it but.... it seems for me that TM2020 is just available for free for 1 year for ArchiCAD 23 users and old users of TM by the end of it we have to pay up.

It's a catch here? I don't have any code of product, serial number or anything to know if the year has passed i will still have TM2020 free of charge. And i mean by this if: i`m in year 2021 and i have to reinstall my TM2020 how does it know i have been using it in 2020 with AC23? I`m to sceptical?

I think it's an opportunity to buy it now for a low price then the next year for a higher one. I'm not committed to the program yet, it seems just a marketing bait either way.
Architect
Certified PassiveHouse Designer

Jp1138
Expert
Lucian wrote:
Hey guys!
I don't know if you thought about it but.... it seems for me that TM2020 is just available for free for 1 year for ArchiCAD 23 users and old users of TM by the end of it we have to pay up.

It's a catch here? I don't have any code of product, serial number or anything to know if the year has passed i will still have TM2020 free of charge. And i mean by this if: i`m in year 2021 and i have to reinstall my TM2020 how does it know i have been using it in 2020 with AC23? I`m to sceptical?

I think it's an opportunity to buy it now for a low price then the next year for a higher one. I'm not committed to the program yet, it seems just a marketing bait either way.
At least for the 2019 version it said it was free forever. I suppose you could stay in 2020 too, but I have not read the small print.
ARCHICAD 24 SPA
Windows 10

Carstenem
Booster
Bricklyne wrote:

This is something that most architects will be able to easily dump onto an intern to learn for a couple of days and save themselves (or their clients) those third party high cost rendering fees, so why not?
Sorry but this shows how little you know about 3D visualisation created by a digital artist. Bit insulting too I might say.

You are welcome to google CGI's with TM or Lumion and you will see that 80% of your search result will be at the most average CGI images, many below standards. Do you want to know why? Because of the exact same thinking as you do NO Software can produce excellent looking images without knowledge of a 3D Visual Artist expert. There are hundreds of bad looking images out there done in vray.

Cheers Carsten

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