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composite walls vs. simple wall fills

Anonymous
Not applicable
A Basic question about wall types:

We do a lot of TI work in 1/8" scale--elaborated space planning straight to construction. We use perhaps 10 different wall types and track unit costing on these.

In the past, we have used composite wall types but at 1/8th scale it doesn't print with clear distinctions and so have migrated to simpler fill type walls that can be output controlled (solid, cross hatch, patterned, etc) more easily.

So the question is: if one is not doing detail cuts or using the calculate function to keep a tally of the materials, why use the composite wall structures?

What am I missing? How are others handling wall types?
15 REPLIES 15

David Larrew
Booster
Have you tried controlling the Composite Wall Fill appearance with "Display Options"?
David Larrew, AIA, GDLA, GSRC

Architectural Technology Specialist

a r c h i S O L U T I O N S



WIN7-10/ OSX 10.15.7

AC 5.1-25 USA

Jacek
Participant
Craig wrote:
A Basic question about wall types:



So the question is: if one is not doing detail cuts or using the calculate function to keep a tally of the materials, why use the composite wall structures?

I think you have answered your own question here. Do it only if you use the appropriate scale.

What am I missing? How are others handling wall types?
If you are using 8.1 -just got mine last night, you can change the display in the Display Options (!) Great stuff, you can have your composites and print the simple wall at 1/8" scale! Take a look at it.
Jacek
jacek lisiewicz
----------------------------------------------
arkhos-tekton, architects
carmichael, ca

Mac OS X 10.15.5
IMac Retina 5K, Intel Core I7
32 GIG Memory, AMD Radeon R9
ArchiCAD 24

Karl Ottenstein
Moderator
~/archiben wrote:
composites are useful to use as a wall 'key' to ensure that all team-mates get the right pen weights/hatching/width correct from scratch - in some ways quicker to use for walls than favourites because they can be chosen directly from the info box.

also - by using composites for even single skin wall construction types, you can control the fill direction and ensure that the fill remains perpendicular to the wall at all times. very useful on a complex, non-orthoganal building.

(possible tip djordje? )
I'll second your own nomination! Sounds like two tips to me, and good ones at that. 😉
Especially when combined with custom line types and pens for each line of a composite in 8.1 (not possible with an ordinary wall), there may be reasons for all walls to be done via composite types.

Also, if you want to change the pen weight or fill (for ex) for all 'frame 2x6 walls' for example - you would just change the composite - no need to select all such walls and edit. Consistency is guaranteed; no fear of having forgotten one wall somewhere.

Thanks Ben,

Karl
One of the forum moderators   •   AC 25 USA and earlier   •   MacOS 11.6.6, iMac Pro

Djordje
Advisor
Yes, QUITE a tip! Waiting for Jay to read it, then I will move it across
Karl wrote:
Especially when combined with custom line types and pens for each line of a composite in 8.1 (not possible with an ordinary wall), there may be reasons for all walls to be done via composite types.
Another reason is the control of the wall thicknesses; if you have to change a wall it is MUCH easier to change one composite than Find&Select through all the building(s).
Djordje



ArchiCAD since 4.55 ... 1995
HP Omen

Djordje
Advisor
~/archiben wrote:
composites are useful to use as a wall 'key' to ensure that all team-mates get the right pen weights/hatching/width correct from scratch - in some ways quicker to use for walls than favourites because they can be chosen directly from the info box.

also - by using composites for even single skin wall construction types, you can control the fill direction and ensure that the fill remains perpendicular to the wall at all times. very useful on a complex, non-orthoganal building.

(possible tip djordje? )

~/archiben
By popular demand ans shameless self promotion gone to Tips&Tricks.
Djordje



ArchiCAD since 4.55 ... 1995
HP Omen

__archiben
Newcomer
Djordje wrote:
By popular demand ans shameless self promotion gone to Tips&Tricks.
hehehe.


it's now a question of actually getting my team-mates to use them. harder than setting it all up in the first place, believe me.

~/archiben
b e n f r o s t
b f [a t ] p l a n b a r c h i t e c t u r e [d o t] n z
archicad | sketchup! | coffeecup

Anonymous
Not applicable
Thank you all. Interesting responses. It will change the way we do things in the office.

Two additional thoughts:

1. Perhaps in 8.2 it would be useful for walls have a scale dependant option much like doors and windows do now. Thus it could shift from a single fill in the composite to the multiple fill as the scale increases. This would be still more useful than the new 8.1 display options.

As an interrum, based upon your suggestions, I will set up some "dummy composite walls" that are graphically correct at small scale (and separately distinguishable from each other in black and white) but that don't have the materials composition accurately recorded.

2. regarding the forum-- when messages are to be upgraded to the "tip folder" for their usefulness, it would be good to move a copy rather than the original so the thread of the conversation isn't lost. (it took my feeble brain a minute to figure out that the referenced post had been moved)

again--thanks

Geoff Briggs
Enthusiast
I didn't notice any new Display Options, just the new Combinations, which are AWESOME. Did I miss something?

I would love the ability to show only the core composites via Display Options (I currently do this with PM), but this would probably necessitate moving to two pull-downs, one for lines, one for fills.
Regards,

Geoff Briggs

DeForest Architects

Seattle, USA



AC25 INT, Mac (home), Win10 (work)

Yes, you read that correctly, we are in the US but use the INT version, because the libraries are better.

Anonymous
Not applicable
Craig
1. Perhaps in 8.2 it would be useful for walls have a scale dependant option much like doors and windows do now. Thus it could shift from a single fill in the composite to the multiple fill as the scale increases. This would be still more useful than the new 8.1 display options.
Slightly off thread: A workaround for walls that I use to give different features at different scales is with Hotlinked modules. If a composite wall (with the same name) is defined in both the source and the host files then you can alter the actual contents of the composite in each file independently (AC7.0v3)

So for example the apartment plans are in one file to be printed at 1:50 scale with detail in the composite walls. These are then Hotlinked into the overall floor plans which are printed at 1:100 with much more simple composite definitions (just the outline and fill)

This may help ....
regards

Anonymous
Not applicable
sorry to confuse things---

in 8.1 there is increased adaptability in the display of composite structures. You can now vary the skin separator line weights.
It is not through "Display Options" though.
Go to: Options/Composite Structures/Edit skin and line weight.

Anonymous
Not applicable
Archiben wrote:
[also - by using composites for even single skin wall construction types, you can control the fill direction and ensure that the fill remains perpendicular to the wall at all times. very useful on a complex, non-orthoganal building. ]

This is a great reason for using composites.
I tried to implement it BUT.... it is not working in my version of 8.1. The radio buttons for orientation have no effect on the result. I did go back to V7.0 and it works fine there. Is this an 8.1 bug or what?

Can anyone else confirm this one way or the other?

(DISREGARD----my error. :oops: )

Anonymous
Not applicable
Craig wrote:
Perhaps in 8.2 it would be useful for walls have a scale dependant option much like doors and windows do now.
This would be a tremendous improvement in the composites. Along with the new line & pen setting it would make them fully useful. I have long wished for the ability to define what wall fills display at what scales. At least I can revisit the disappearing pen trick; it should work now.

Djordje
Advisor
Craig wrote:
I tried to implement it BUT.... it is not working in my version of 8.1. The radio buttons for orientation have no effect on the result. I did go back to V7.0 and it works fine there. Is this an 8.1 bug or what?
Construction fills are bitmap or vectorial?
Djordje



ArchiCAD since 4.55 ... 1995
HP Omen

Anonymous
Not applicable
Djordje wrote:

Construction fills are bitmap or vectorial?

Dang---I think you are correct to question this. I can't recreate the "defect" so it must have been me setting it to bitmap.

Djordje
Advisor
Craig wrote:
Dang---I think you are correct to question this. I can't recreate the "defect" so it must have been me setting it to bitmap.
Been there ...

PlotMaker 3.x tip: make sure that you always set the fills to keep the original settings! That way you can play with the graphic representation of the, for example, solid walls and vectorial ceiling or floor tiling fills ...
Djordje



ArchiCAD since 4.55 ... 1995
HP Omen

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