Archicad 26 is here!

[Noemi Balogh]

This is the connecting forum thread for Archicad 26 is here!

What is your favourite new feature? Share your thoughts and opinion here!

[jl_lt]

The problem MJules is that they are basically ditching the concept of Open BIM with all this fluff, the same concept that was their flagship strategy for years and kept thema afloat.  Why doing it now? Maybe it never worked? 

Again, for those who like or need totally integrated solutions, they already exist.  Graphisoft WILL NOT catch up. Not at this pace.  Why not focus on your strenghts?

Why dispair so much about Revit, and then wanting to become like them? 

After some discussion, i said somewhere else that if Graphisoft was trying to catch the engineering segment to expand its market share i was fine with it (like if it matters); Maybe i should have added that it should be done without neglecting the current user base and presententing an at least mildly useful engineering solution. None of those things have happened so far, and from what i read, wont happen at least in the next 2 releases. 

By the time those 2 releases come, 5 year will have been wasted with basically NOTHING to show for, save for some sexy promises done to some stary eyed bunch of shareholders, who are potentially the real problem here.

[Martin Jules]

The short answer is that many Archicad users depend, one way or another, on Autodesk products even though they criticize them through this forum. We should work and think about being as autonomous as possible from Autodesk products.

[Eduardo Rolon]

If you are a professional you should use the best tool that you like and thats it. If Adesk is the one that creates that tool then I don't have a problem with that, if it is another small company then so be it. My clients don't give a Sh**T what software I use, they don't even know what it is called and that is as it should be.

AC was best in class at what it does which was produce Architectural Construction Documents. This is still the case by a very minimum but if they keep going this way I don't give them more than 10 years. I want to be wrong, I wouldn't mind to be wrong hoping that all of this is an elaborate specific road that they are following with a nice rainbow at the end but that was what I initially  thought during the Beta for 24 and here we are 3 years later.

Being professional in this case means that I need to explore other options to see if there is a better tool that aligns with what my professional practice needs.

[Martin Jules]

What you are saying is contrary to what professionals in the field experience on the ground in North America. The majority of us have to work on Revit, AutoCAD and Sketchup in the firms. We don't need to like these software programs. Be there to work on them, or leave those firms.

This generates pressure both on Archicad users and on Graphisoft itself. Don't think this is just a simple problem!

[Martin Jules]

Unfortunately, you issue exclusive opinions. You prefer excluding professionals who suffer from this major problem in the field by claiming that you identify all the dimensions related to this problem.

[Eduardo Rolon]

@Martin Jules,

Sorry I just noticed that Location is not shown as part of the signature so I removed the first sentence of the post.

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I know a lot of architectural offices around the states who use AC and do not use Revit, Autocad or SketchUp. So the "majority" of the ones I know do not have the same experience as yours.

I am sorry that you have to use software that you don't like at your place of work but that does not make it the majority. In your case the principal of the office is the one who gets to choose so my argument is still valid. If he thinks that Revit, Autocad and SketchUp are the tools that he needs to do the best work for his clients he is not wrong.

I would avoid writing these super general statements that have no base in reality.

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[Martin Jules]

You don't understand the reality, @Eduardo Rolon !

[Martin Jules]

In marketing, there are not only the strengths of the company to consider, it's also most important to work on opportunities that your product could represent for the various market segments as an alternative.

[thesleepofreason]

I have said nothing about isolating architecture as a discipline or which application multidisciplinary firms should use.

What I pointed out was that it seems very unlikely that multidisciplinary firms would be content with ACs shortcomings as long as they are able to do what? Generate live loads? It's rather that in 2022 it seems impossible to continue to develop BIM software without taking into account basic general functionalities. This is evident by the community response. 

"So yes, GS could probably ignore that segment UNTIL AC is the best version of itself."

It should also be noted that the pre-emptive strategy you keep pushing as a response to a hypothetical scenario where one other company (Autodesk) decides to make all their formats proprietary is counter to the commitment to OPEN BIM that both GS and Nemetschek has clearly made.

[Martin Jules]

Based on your posts, you support that Graphisoft should exclude multidisciplinary firms in its marketing strategies. Thus, you implicitly encourage those firms to go with the competitors on the market. Why? 

[thesleepofreason]

So based on my post regarding where I believe AC should focus their (apparently very limited) development resources and why, you conclude what I think about their marketing strategies and hold me implicitly responsible for the success of "the competition"?

I'm sorry to say it but you just seem to ramble and I don't think we will get much further here.

Although it would be interesting to hear exactly what features and workflows you think GS should market to these large multidisciplinary firms, how that would win users over from "the competition" and if you believe AC actually would deliver on that marketing.

[Martin Jules]

"So yes, GS could probably ignore that segment until AC is the best version of itself" posted previously by you, @thesleepofreason 

Why do you support exclusive policies in marketing? 

Graphisoft does not have to ignore that market segment while the opportunities to also work for/with that segment are possible and these multidisciplinary companies also want to have other alternatives because some of them are tired with certain services received from Autodesk for example.

[DGSketcher]

@Martin Jules I think you should go read the Nemetschek annual report in this thread that I posted yesterday. You seem to think Graphisoft is centre of the Universe in terms of delivering software to the construction industry. Graphisoft is merely a cog in a much larger vision of where Nemetschek see their future.

[Martin Jules]

I'd like to take advantage of your post to remind Graphisoft that Archicad also represents a heritage for the people of Hungary. The company must protect Archicad against any drift that only aims at capitalism to enrich itself without taking into account the quality of the various services it offers to its users.

[Bricklyne Clarence]

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@Martin Jules wrote:

@Bricklyne Clarence It seems you only focus on 2 market segments: individuals and small firms. How about multidisciplinary firms that use Archicad from prè-design to construction evaluation? Would you like the company to ignore them? ....

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What percentage of total users are those multi-disciplinary firms of the total users who use Archicad?

90% ?

More than 50%?

More than 20%?

So what sense does it make to focus the development of features in more than three versions now on firms of that kind when most of the customers who use your program are not those kinds of firms and also while the tools and things that those users want improved are likely to benefit the entire customer-base and not just a limited segment.

Archicad (and by extension Graphisoft) aren't what they are today and where they are today because of multi-disciplinary firms.

They are what and where they are today because of those individuals, small and even medium-sized firms that first bought into it and have loyally stuck with them all this time even as they're now trying to pursue a new segment of the market.

It might help them (and people like YOU) to remember that.

[Bricklyne Clarence]

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@Eduardo Rolon wrote:

The other item that is obvious is that they don't know how to use their software, they don't know about architecture and construction, and that whomever is advising them on their roadmap has no idea what he is doing. 

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That has been apparent for some time now, and as you've put it is probably the single most distilled truth about Graphisoft and their development of Archicad nowadays.

They don't know their users or how they work (not really), and to be fair that wouldn't be the biggest crime (it would be unfair to expect a Dev to know every aspect of an entirely different profession they were not trained in and how people in it work), if not for how seemingly disinterested and sometimes bordering on hostile they are to getting input from the same folks working in the field they're developing the software for.

And I'm not even necessarily talking about users here on the Talk forum.

Hearing tales from Beta-testers of how frustrating the process is/was for them just makes me wonder, ".......then who exactly do these guys get their feedback from -  if they even do ever take any feedback?"

It's pretty clear that nothing that gets talked/complained about here ever sinks in at GS HQ, and they'll do what they want to do anyway.

Even the radio silence now in the immediate aftermath of what can only be kindly characterized as yet another disastrous release (as it was before the actual release), just bespeaks a company that's completely and utterly tone-deaf to a degree I've rarely ever seen before (....ironically, outside of this same company).

[Lee Hankins]

You can control the visibility of layers and their locked state within folders by changing the state of the host folder. You just have to be in the uppermost level of the structure.

I don't disagree that there are many improvements can be made to this newer structure for attributes such as folder tree and the ability to link layers to multiple folders (although I can see that becoming really complicated). From discussions I have had with the dev team this is a multi year project as it is such a huge change and I for one am glad for the small changes albeit not perfect. It gives us an opportunity to get used to a much larger change and develop our working methods. Unfortunately GS are never going to please everyone as we all work differently and the methods people use across different localisations are different. They definitely listen to what his fed back which is evident by the reintroduction of the now old Attribute Manager. GS do need to know our opinion and as extensive users we can see the pitfalls and benefits that the devs potentially wouldn't even think of. I am dismayed by the amount of quite brutal bashing of the dev team on here and we all need to take a step back and look at it from their side, imagine if you were the devs reading half these comments. 

[Eduardo Rolon]

Just to make sure that this is my recollection during the Beta process:

@Lee Hankins wrote:

You can control the visibility of layers and their locked state within folders by changing the state of the host folder. You just have to be in the uppermost level of the structure. 

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Fair point but it still is buggy as hell and you cannot use GOs. See Giff were the layer within only inherits the folder setting once you click "twice" to set it.

 

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@Lee Hankins wrote:

From discussions I have had with the dev team this is a multi year project as it is such a huge change and I for one am glad for the small changes albeit not perfect. 

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I agree that it is a good idea to go in steps, (told devs on phone calls too) but they cannot unilaterally remove functionality, the initial release should work and they should make it clear what the steps are. They didn't do anything on this and they gave the answer about multiyear development after they were savaged by a group of Beta users. It was my impression that they thought that Folders and the New Attribute Manager (now named Attributes) were final as is. They had to be convinced that you couldn't manage and/or audit a project with the new Attributes Palette.

Also a multi year project going in the wrong direction (ex SAM, SAF, PARAMO) or never finishing it like Curtain Wall, BMats, Stairs, Railings, Live Work Sheets, can destroy a company.

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@Lee Hankins wrote:

They definitely listen to what his fed back which is evident by the reintroduction of the now old Attribute Manager. GS do need to know our opinion and as extensive users we can see the pitfalls and benefits that the devs potentially wouldn't even think of. I am dismayed by the amount of quite brutal bashing of the dev team on here and we all need to take a step back and look at it from their side, imagine if you were the devs reading half these comments. 

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This was not the way I saw it during the beta and during the conference calls. They had to be forced to recognize the issue. I and others spent a lot of time and effort just to get them to acknowledge the mistakes and not only thru the beta channel but using every single resource we could find. I know for a fact that they had to be demoed how a BimManager uses Attribute Manager to audit a file and shown that it was impossible to do with the new one, this was right before they released RC01 not when they started their multi-year development. The clincher was that they didn't know anything about this workflow. Then we had to wait a couple of weeks until "Suddenly" we had the answer that they would be bringing the old Attribute Manager back.

AS I have written multiple times, try using "Attributes" to audit and/or update your template file comparing it with another and then remember that one of the features of 26 was the removal of the OLD Attribute Manager.

This is not bashing, this is stating the problems as was done during the Beta and in GDCP. I don't get paid by GS. I pay GS for a product and for the last three versions what I paid for does not have any major benefit, I could have stayed on 23.

For ex, this is the third time I go to the steak house, pay in advanced for a Prime Rib, get a single french fry on my plate. I should care for the feelings for the owner? This is the third time I need to explain to the owner that doing that is not a good strategy while as a bonus he raised the price on the third steak. I think I earned the right to raise my voice regardless of how he feels.

Is it really better if we shut up so that we don't hurt the Devs feelings?

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Obviously I am not happy with the last three releases and I have tried to tone down what I write but it is kind of a pain to see that the software that I use, train others and teach in university for the last 20 years (not to mention time spent as user and moderator here, on GDCP and in Betas) is becoming worthless to my practice and teaching.

At this point a user coming in from Autocad will find AC26 great , just like I did when I bought my AC08 license. But I was shown in the yahoo groups of that time why it was a dud release. This is me trying to pay it forward, 26 is a worse release than 08 and it is not only the bugs but the change in concept, philosophy and culture at GSHQ.

I know that there is a new "software lead?" at GSHQ and I hope to be shown wrong.

[thesleepofreason]

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@Eduardo Rolon wrote:

Just to make sure that this is my recollection during the Beta process:

@Lee Hankins wrote:

You can control the visibility of layers and their locked state within folders by changing the state of the host folder. You just have to be in the uppermost level of the structure. 

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Fair point but it still is buggy as hell and you cannot use GOs. See Giff were the layer within only inherits the folder setting once you click "twice" to set it.

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Just to be clear - as the interface always have been a bit messy. We can only use folders as shortcut to select all its contents right?

So a new layer added to a folder will not inherit the status of the folder but rather change it to the various value state right?

[Eduardo Rolon]

I think that is a No on both counts.

For Select all you need to right click on a Layer except within a folder were you need to Shift+Click to select all or click on one of the Layers in the bottom list and use CMD+A.

Layers dropped in a folder will not inherit the the folder they keep their Combo Setting

[Jp1138]

Comments may seem harsh, and many of them are, but they just show how frustated many users are. The improvements of this version don´t seem to be worth a year of work. I understand a lot of things can, and probably are, going under the hood, but as GS tells everybody so little of what´s going on, it´s no surprise people get upset. Right now i´m begining to think Gs is must be severely understaffed in the  programming department, and overstaffed in the marketing one 😐