Next phase of subscription transition announced

[Richard Doll]

Dear Community Members, 

Following my recent Graphisoft Insights post on the Subscription transition update, we know how important this topic is for you as our clients and anticipate your comments and questions. To streamline communication, we’ve created this thread to gather everything in one place. We’ll also use it to identify topics that may need further clarification, which we’ll address on our FAQ page.

Please note that while we cannot respond to individual questions in the forum, your local representative is available for personalized support.

Best regards,
Richard

Link to Insights article: https://community.graphisoft.com/t5/Graphisoft-Insights/Important-update-Next-phase-of-subscription-...

[furtonb]

So you are telling me, that I'll be able to work on large teamwork projects with this move, without them crashing constantly... Right?

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[Jp1138]

 

[Kalib Stewart]

Considering we just got Archicad 27.1 today, does that mean we'll only have access to Archicad 27.3 by 2026? Reckon you guys will have fixed that big selling point (worse than CI's one btw) half-baked keynotes feature by then? Nothing beats a single screen BIM software in 2024 either, I mean wow.

Guess a move to Revit was sadly inevitable; trying to price match the actual monopoly was beyond foolish. 

[Ransom Ratcliff]

I can appreciate the tactic of lighting a fire under GS to do the right thing for all of us.

But honestly, a move to Revit would be jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire.

The difference is so astounding that I would take ArchiCAD 17 over Revit 2024, unless I had to work on a Revit project.

Indeed, if I didn't need to Teamwork between offices, I'd rather use ArchiCAD 9 SE than the current Revit BIM 360; especially if I needed to do a large project with a large team in the same office.

The one area where Revit has long crushed us in the North American market has been localization and libraries. But the workarounds we must implement are not nearly as painful as using Revit itself. (Keynotes has been one of those Revit features that still outshine us, btw. But we are closing the gap significantly, OTB with 28.)

[Kalib Stewart]

To each their own, but I can use either one competently so will just work with the best tool value wise at the time.

Add to the fact that Revit has a stronghold in Australia/NZ for the majority of larger practices + their construction cloud is an all in one solution + all of our consultants are on it and it would make coordination easier + a wider hiring pool for firms + more job opportunities for it as an employee; it's a no brainer to move. 

The value for money is not even comparable either, and at least with Revit, I can anticipate an actual upgrade to a tool somewhere between releases. It may not be much, but it's a hell of a lot more than we got with archicad 28 - just sub-par keynotes and some more Graphisoft lies.

[PrzemN]

You may like it or not, but Revit has become a standard with it's ecosystem, no matter if we like it or not. So the question is - if a big companies are willing to pay subscription fee knowing that they will have to deal with usual Archicad's compatibility issues? There is also a question of a small offices, who are not having a product suitable for their needs now. What would they do? If Revit will have a right pricing model for old Archicad users to switch I will not hesitate to switch, also if there is some other bim solution available. 

[jl_lt]

Given the current state of affairs, the only reason i can think of for a big architectural office to use archicad is because the founders started off by using it and as they grew remained loyal to it (Loyalty, a foreign concept to Graphisoft shareholders).

Otherwise, with these new paying schemes, no company in their right mind will pay what Graphisoft is asking for; Specially if you are getting around a tenth of the tools you get with Revit. Because like it or not, need it or not, with Revit you get a fully funcitional MEP and structural module. Unless Graphisoft is hiding something, Archicad is already DECADES behind Revit in both categories.    In the last 5 years, in which they tried to close the gap, somehow they fell even farther behind.     So how is it that they are now increasing the prices indiscriminately asking for full price to people that already paid for this without providing the tools to actually compete?  

[Ransom Ratcliff]

As we urge Graphisoft and Nemetschek to tweak the policy for perpetual licenses, particularly with current perpetual license holders on SSA, let's not fall off the other side of the horse.

I.e. Revit is not making progress or supporting its customers. If you think Graphisoft is taking its customers for granted and not listening to them, Autodesk is taking this belligerence (now and historically) to an entirely different level.

Let's just list a few bullet points:

• No multithreading or multiprocessing on the local workstation. So larger teams or project sizes really need 360 to edit or collaborate. ArchiCAD is just faster than Revit, the large the project gets and the more people editing it at the same time.
• No Drag and Drop of PDF with automatic reference links from wherever the source file was at the time.
• No cropping or cutting holes in Drag and Dropped PDFs or DWGs while maintain reference to the original file.
• Inserting PDFs requires you to select a DPI for rasterization. No vector graphics or TrueType fonts remain.
• No automatic internal hotlinks in published PDFs for all reference markers.
• No automatic sheet numbering or Drawing IDs.
• No Pet Palettes for contextual editing on the fly.
• No Smart Cursors.
• No easy 3D editing of Selected elements or Marquee area.
• No exploding vector PDFs for further editing.
• No High-Quality PDF engine built-in that can make efficient multipage and bookmarked PDFs that preserve original DPI of images or can make PDFs of just a marqueed area of any View or Layout.
• Exploding DWGs for further editing is against Best Practices in Revit due to a serious problem of attribute pollution if you do.
• Working offline on a workshared Revit project is called "working at risk." But ArchiCAD Teamwork is so robust, you can work offline for hours and even synch (Send & Receive) when you have some simple connection, even on an airplane.  
• No native support for Mac. (Graphisoft got a huge free boost from Apple with the amazing M3 Max this year.) I say this as someone who argued on ArchiCAD Talk many years ago that ArchiCAD was better on Windows. But now I prefer Mac. But even better, (as always) Windows and Mac users can work on the same ArchiCAD project.

The truth is Autodesk bought Revit because they realized that AutoCAD could not be fixed.

But now it is clear that Revit has been in a dead-end of development since Autodesk bought it. And the reasons for that are clear if you are Autodesk and simply look at their cost-benefit incentives. I don't really blame them. They are in a trap that hurts their customers.

Graphisoft is still the underdog and is facing a different field of incentives, and inertia, than Autodesk.

My hope is that this conversation between people who share some key goals, will result in a better solution for both sides.

[Martin Jules]

BIM is not about software. I also work using Revit, as a tool, every day, and I have not faced with your above-mentioned challenges. Thus, the main point here is that we lose trust and confidence in the Graphisoft's leaders. 

[jl_lt]

Bim is death man. It has become CAD again

[Kalib Stewart]

Look some of that is fair, but half of it is also just PDF compatibility. Personally I rarely even use them other than the odd explode or trace. I'm not ignorant of Autodesk's massive flaws, but GS doesn't get to plead the underdog now that they're switching to the same cost and model - on top of that at least Autodesk hasn't just pulled the rug out on everyone here....

To the point above look at what Archicad is still missing...

• Multi-monitor support (I bring this up every time but it's close to 2025 and I still can't work in a 3D and 2D view at once).
• Live detail callouts - everything is fills and lines that require rebuilds. Revit's detailing method is far more BIM like at least.
• No family creator equivalent - I brought this up in the tech preview and seems most agree. Absolutely necessary for 3D & 2D objects.
• Split levels.
• Skin-by-skin editing, modifiers, reno filters, and graphic overrides.
• Native parametric window/door tools - like CIs
• Phase mapping without design option workarounds
• MEP tools that aren't worthless - setting accurate pipe falls in plan view doesn't even work.
• In-project module updates akin to Revit's groups.
• A mesh tool that works - and works with our civil engineers and surveyors' file formats.
• Correct display of 3D elements in plan views.
• The ability to edit node points to create sloping elements and the annotation tools that read their slopes/gradients live.
• Variable composite roofs, slabs, meshes - with the above node and skin editability.
• More than two reference levels!
• Where's dark mode for PC?!?!
• This list goes on and on.

Have you seen the updated roadmap?? They could add every single item in under research and in progress on it to AC29 and it would still be an 'okay' upgrade at best. They removed all the good stuff we wanted on our wishlist too. What's the bet the next big 'AC29 upgrade' will be the add-on store where independents do the work and GS clips the ticket while we overpay for things we should already have built-in.

I love Archicad, and I used to swear by it. But after more than a decade of using it, it is just falling further and further behind; and that was before they duped everyone here with "we will continue to support SSA/forward members". They have become tone-deaf and need a reality check after all of this.

[jl_lt]

You are right. But You are also forgetting one little detail: there is no software shortcoming that cannot be overcomed by throwing more revit monkeys at it.     No matter how bad the incumbent software is, if the big offices clients' are paying and they have fresh graduates each year, their incentive to look for other alternatives is practically nihil.  

We on the other hand, are with archicad because we actually like to use it, as quirky as it may be.

That graphisoft is trying to lure that big market away from Autodesk or at least getting a piece at the top of the pyramid by offering less than half baked solutions to those Big companies  WHILE neglecting the medium and small markets, solo user markets, student market and non-first world countries markets (that is, the base of the pyramid, and it's a BIG pyramid at the base, like the Cholula pyramid in México), seems completely delusional and misguided.

[thesleepofreason]

Yes - seems as GS are willing to throw out their bread and butter just to get a taste of the sprinkles falling of the top of the cake. 

“Revit users take us as a second solution into their portfolio, because they can do things with Archicad that they can’t typically do with Revit. I think the combination of Revit together with Archicad works well and is getting more and more popular.” CEO Daniel Csillag in AECMAGAZINE 

In what reality does it make sense to pay not for one but for two softwares that both claim to offer industry leading complete solutions and charge accordingly just to in the end have to rely on some other software (like Rhino/GH) to get the work done?

[Stefan Videnov]

Can you ellaborate on how Archicad fell behind further?

[Francois_MCD]

Hi @Richard Doll 

About the new offer for perpetual license users to "Convert  to Archicad Studio".
If users on perpetual & SSA/Forward convert licenses to Archicad Studio subscription in 2025, will they be able to upgrade to the full Collaborate subscription later?

[Francois_MCD]

@Richard Doll 

Graphisoft's info also indicate that the subscription licenses will only be compatible to open project files from Archicad 26 & newer.

As I understand it, if users choose to keep some of their licenses on Perpetual after end of 2025, these licenses will remain at Archicad 30. These Archicad 30 licenses will be compatible to open project files at least back to Archicad 13.

Will Graphisoft maintain operating system compatibility for +/-3years / versions as they did before or will all compatibility updates be stopped immediately after end of 2025?

[Martin Jan Rosa]

Dear GS, dear Richard, 

In the linked article I was interested in the paragraph

"SSA/FWD customers can convert to Archicad Collaborate subscriptions at the same price as SSA/FWD in 2024. Starting in 2025, they can convert to Archicad Studio subscriptions at the same price. This offer is designed to help SSA/FWD customers fully benefit from Graphisoft’s subscription offerings at a highly preferential price."

So does this mean that I can take out a Collaborate subscription until the end of 2024 that will be priced permanently (!?) at the same rate as my SSA/FWD?

My SSA/FWD contract (locally called Support Pack over here) is about 1/3 of the annual Archicad Collaborate subscription (this is a standard price on our market). So this option is very interesting for me (and, frankly, fair, since the SSA/FWD contract is of course linked to the purchase of a much more expensive license in the past).

How exactly to make the switch to Collaborate? Will it be done by a local vendor partner or directly by Graphisoft? (I've asked both of them just in case, but I'm wondering what kind of answer I can expect.)

Is there a catch or is it really a fair offer for loyal customers? 

[Erik Bjornhage]

Here: https://graphisoft.com/convert-ssa-forward-to-archicad-collaborate

It reaonably clearly states that depending on what billing cycle you choose the price will be locked in for a certain timeframe.

It is not a permanent discount but after a couple of years you will be paying the full Collaborate price.

[Barry Kelly]

You can lock in for 3 years at your current SSA/FWD support fees, with an option to extend for a further 3 years as I understand it.

The catch is, you have to stump the 3 year few up front in one go, or you can pay yearly with a 10% surcharge.

I believe the 3 year deal has to be done through your local partner.

Barry.

[Martin Jules]

@Barry Kelly wrote:

You can lock in for 3 years at your current SSA/FWD support fees, with an option to extend for a further 3 years as I understand it.

The catch is, you have to stump the 3 year fee up front in one go, or you can pay yearly with a 10% surcharge.

I believe the 3 year deal has to be done through your local partner.

Barry.

---

I wonder why it's so difficult to understand the company's statements:

"Starting in 2026, Archicad will be available for purchase only through subscription. Archicad SSA/FWD customers can convert to Archicad Collaborate subscriptions at the same price as SSA/FWD in 2024. Starting in 2025, SSA/FWD customers can convert to Archicad Studio subscriptions at the same price as SSA/FWD. This offer was designed to help SSA/FWD customers take full advantage of Graphisoft’s subscription offerings at a very preferential starting price. Early movers in 2024 are getting the added benefits of cloud collaboration included by default."

The sentence in bold is different from your explanations @Barry Kelly . 

[Martin Jules]

It appears users could also pay annually within a commitment for a three-year-term: