Archicad 8.1 and state of the art notebooks - 3D WAIT TIME ?

[Anonymous]

Have not bought a machine in about 4 years. My last desktop was a dell dimension xpsb1000r (1 Ghz, 512mb ram, Nvidia gforce 2, 45 Gb ata HD.
Don't have this machine any more and am currently using an Inspiron 5000e w/ 650Mhz p3, 512 pc100 Ram
8 MB ati video, 15" screen which takes about 1.5 to 2 minutes to do the following:
(the xpsb wasn't much faster I might add)

to look at a 5500 KB + or -
complexity model ( job size) in the 3D window
shaded mode, internal 3D engine, transparency in shading on, vectorial hatching on, contours = best, and window size in pixels 1380 wide x 949 high

The job described above is a 2400 s.f. residence on a sloping site so there is a good sized mesh here, but with or without the mesh its still very slow.

Need a second machine, and like the idea of another notebook as a desktop replacement.

SO MY QUESTION IS :
If you have one of these new notebooks, would
greatly appriciate knowing what you have and how long you are waiting typicaly for your 3d window to calculate
the goods on a job sim. to that described above.


Much Thanks,

JP

[Karl Ottenstein]

Jonathan wrote:
If you have one of these new notebooks, would
greatly appriciate knowing what you have and how long you are waiting typicaly for your 3d window to calculate
the goods on a job sim. to that described above.

Your model actually sounds pretty small. I would NEVER use the internal engine when OpenGL is available (except for when I need to copy/paste 3D linework) but of course, it sounds like your graphics card and CPU are pretty limited, so maybe OpenGL isn't an option for you now.

Even on my nearly 3-year-old Dell 8100 1GHz/512MB/32MB nvidia laptop, doing custom homes on complex meshes that are much larger, there is NO 3D wait time in the OpenGL 3D window. Totally fluid. It might take a couple of seconds for the window to come up if everything is turned on.

If you get a state of the art laptop, you will be astonished. I thought that Link and others answered your question on the Sager vs Dell thread that you started...?

Karl

[Anonymous]

Karl wrote:

Jonathan wrote:
If you have one of these new notebooks, would
greatly appriciate knowing what you have and how long you are waiting typicaly for your 3d window to calculate
the goods on a job sim. to that described above.

Your model actually sounds pretty small. I would NEVER use the internal engine when OpenGL is available (except for when I need to copy/paste 3D linework) but of course, it sounds like your graphics card and CPU are pretty limited, so maybe OpenGL isn't an option for you now.

Even on my nearly 3-year-old Dell 8100 1GHz/512MB/32MB nvidia laptop, doing custom homes on complex meshes that are much larger, there is NO 3D wait time in the OpenGL 3D window. Totally fluid. It might take a couple of seconds for the window to come up if everything is turned on.

If you get a state of the art laptop, you will be astonished. I thought that Link and others answered your question on the Sager vs Dell thread that you started...?

Karl

Karl,

Your right open gl on my lappy is not very good.
Having worked w/ the internal engine for as many years as I have its still my best gage. When I went from 333mhz PII to the xpsb1000r about 4 year + ago I was suprised at how little an improvement there was in the 3d wait time. This is why I want to here what kind of times these new machines are producing in the internal 3d ingine.
If there was only a 10 second wait here (17" screen new state of the art laptop, Internal engine, etc. etc.)
this would be a good gage for me right?
Could think to myself, 2min. VS. 10 seconds.
This kind of improvement is what I'm hoping for, but still think its wishful thinking

[Karl Ottenstein]

Jonathan wrote:
This is why I want to here what kind of times these new machines are producing in the internal 3d ingine.

Sure. So, perhaps you should describe a small benchmark that anyone can do to post a time for you. Try either the Orchard or Residential example files in your AC folder. Given a layer combo and the internal engine settings, time how long it takes for you to display the 3D window.

Karl

[Anonymous]

Okay, here we go,
Orchard project straight from pla archive in examples folder archicad 8.1 copied the pla to a (new folder) on my desktop

first dialog box I have selected radio button (read elements directly from archive)
Project opens full screen on my 15" notebook.
I go to options preferences, working units and levels
change to feet and fractional inches (1/8" accuracy) , degreees minutes and seconds, hit next to dimensions and do the same thing feet and fractional inches(1/8" accuracy) keep hitting next to image and calculation
check 3d settings changes brings 3d window to front.

go to 3d window settings from top to bottom choose internal engine, shading, analytic, analytic, best, on, on, off , then upper right change window size in pixels
(first box only) to 1380 let other box be calculated
and hit okay.
go back to plan view
goto image, 3d projection settings, top bar on right click to change to parallel projection settings,
camera z =5'-0" target =5'-0"
distance =143, azimuth =224
leave the rest as is hit okay and return to plan.
go to layer settings dialog select all layers and show them all. close dialog box, do a display, fit in window,go to image , 3d projection settings, take a look at the clock and hit okay.

My laptop took 7.5 minutes

this procedure is exactly how I did it, had never looked at this example before.

This should be interesting, thanks Karl, good idea,
I would have thought it was asking too much to expect somebody to go to all the trouble, but, this will surly answer my question

Thanks,

JP


Below
this is a jpg showing my open gl engines output,
it is very slugish to move around and hangs on every move, click a button and 5 seconds later the button depresses, move the pan arrow to the other side of the center to pan tthe other way and wait 10 seconds for the arrow to change direction and then another 10 for it to start moving.
I think this must be the 8mb video card,
also as you can see the framing is showing through my parapet - every thing shows up fine in the internal engine

[Karl Ottenstein]

Jonathan wrote:
Below
this is a jpg showing my open gl engines output,

Yeah, definitely cannot do OpenGL with that old/small of a card. The model you posted is interesting; the image sux... OpenGL window, even without textures, shouldn't look that bad.

OpenGL does expose things that you could get away with otherwise, such as masses which occupy the same space.

Your computer is of course below the necessary specs to be even doing this, but the model that you show is adding to the pain since you have so many curved walls and slabs and such a finely detailed mesh, all of which add greatly to the polygon count. (Speaking of the mesh, that volcano of fill to support the infinity pool ain't gonna be cheap, is it?!)

Karl

[Karl Ottenstein]

goto image, 3d projection settings, top bar on right click to change to parallel projection settings,

Actually, you've just changed to perpsective settings...

camera z =5'-0" target =5'-0"
distance =143, azimuth =224
leave the rest as is hit okay and return to plan.
go to layer settings dialog select all layers and show them all. close dialog box, do a display, fit in window,go to image , 3d projection settings, take a look at the clock and hit okay.

My laptop took 7.5 minutes

My laptop took 0 seconds: because the camera was aimed away from the building. 😉 The default perpective position isn't static.

Try it on your end again by placing a camera at a reproducible spot. With the camera tool, make the camera settings as above, and place the camera at x=-90', y=-90', then zoom in and click on the center of the "U" grid marker in the front of the building as the target. Select the camera, then Ctrl-3 to the 3D window.

This took my 1GHz P3 / 512MB RAM (3 year old) laptop 4:15 minutes.

Starting fresh, it took only 22 seconds to display the OpenGL window ... in which motion is a bit jerky on this old machine (32MB video memory), but usable.

Someone else will have to test on a 'power' notebook and report for you... presumably the same as desktop performance, since this is entirely processor dependent.

But, I still think the premise is wrong: you just won't be using the internal engine if you get a computer with the specs needed to run AC. You'll be using OpenGL.

Karl

[Anonymous]

Karl,

interesting, okay with all layers on and after the fit in window go to the 3d projection settings and place the
camera right where the bottom marker of the left most vertical section cut line intersects the mesh and the target is right on the steel I beam column at the bottom of the stairs on the ground floor level. and the sun is right over the camera.

I'v got to tell you, have stayed in the open gl engine all afternoon and its like having a new computer even with the rasterish look to every thing and the slugish responce its exactly what I have been dreaming about for years, heck 10 seconds is beter than 2 minutes any day can't thank you enough!
contempt prior to investigation is just no good
and have had 8.1 for what a month now.

Oh the fill, my client is getting it for free about a mile away they are doing some road work there and he's even allowed 10 percent asphault