Why Archicad ?

[Anonymous]

I have worked in Archicad for the past 1.5 years after being trained in Autocad for a year. I fell in love with Archicad and am about to purchase version 9 from a Graphisoft Dealer. My question is just a general one to open up some pro's and con's. Why should I continue to stay with Archicad when it is so hard to find a job in it as opposed to Autocad and what sets it apart from Autocad ? What about products like Intergraph has like Smartplant 3d. Should I learn it instead of investing more time in Archicad ?

Thanks and thanks for a great forum.

Born2Draft

[archislave]

I agree that finding trained Archicad users is difficult. But, the biggest problem is the complexity and 'state of disarray' in Archicad. It is much more fun and 3d is rewarding compared to Autocad. Archicad is much more flexible and 'creative' feeling than Revit. Although, Revit has the simple interface that makes learning it much easier in some ways. Revit starts getting in your way once you get real with adding complexity while it tries to maintain the associations amongst elements.

Still, after using Archicad 9 for over a year I am appalled at the things it lacks. Buying, loading, and updating third party libraries is a nightmare! They seem to keep throwing off the real stuff you need into the hands of third parties. Many of these tools are made in foreign countries like NZ and do not conform to US standards and probably not Euro standards for that matter.

The elements setting boxes are loaded with complexity and inexplicable parameter settings. Does it have to be this hard to create simple powerful interfaces.

If you look at this forum, it is not very active and many of the users are Legacy users who have gotten used to the slow motion development and have developed work arounds. They do not seem to demand much of Graphisoft anymore.

I guess I am saying if Archicad was revolutionized then it would be much easier to learn requiring less training. I have great hope for v10 ... but if I don't see major improvements I am thinking of getting really good at Sketchup for 3d and 2d slices and learning a more wyswyg 2d program like Vectorworks or Powercad in which to detail them.

It all depends on 10.........???????????

[Thomas Holm]

archislave wrote:
Revit starts getting in your way once you get real with adding complexity

And you don't think that happens with Sketchup? Well, try and see for yourself. I use it. But only in early stages.

I may be a "legacy user", but I went to Archicad from Microstation and Triforma, so I have at least tasted the grass on the other side of the fence. I'm VERY happy that Graphisoft with the latest releases has concentrated on productivity. Some don't regard AC9 as a feature upgrade, just a "bug fix" or whatever.

To me, that's bullshit of the worst kind. Having been here since 1995 or so, I find AC9 one of the most significant releases to this program ever. Many long-standing requests from us users have been adressed - even if not all. The program now acts and feels smooth in action in a professional way it never had before.

Of course, Sketchup-like navigation in 3D would be very useful. Unified, freely definded, 3D rotatable views, like Microstation, would be useful too. As would free 3D editing of ALL items.

But I want that without sacrificing the basic ease of the 2D floorplan metaphor. And no crashes! And no bugs! I'm prepared to wait for evolution, if it works. A revolution, like they tend to do, would probably kill most of the user base, and take a long time to get back to a workable state.

Productivity is the key. I'm perfectly happy that GS concentrates on the basics, and leaves the specialized add-ons to enthusiasts in New Zealand or whatever. Ask a couple of users, and the'll all want different things, but most of them like the basic simplicity.

Like some want radiosity in Archicad. I'd like GS to create an option - those who want better rendering options than the built-in should have a choice to buy an enhanced (more complete) Lightworks engine, as an alternative to Abvent, C4D and others.

A good, solid working foundation, and then extensible open toolboxes is the key!

[Dwight]

Since I am a workaround geezer since 1992, you must be referring, in part, to me. I have shoes older than you.

If you think that we old guys aren't very demanding and cope with inept programming nonsense only by developing workarounds - as if that was giving up on pressuring headquarters to improve the product, you should write to headquarters and ask them to send you Dwight's GDL black eye object. And the boot print dust-butt object. Karl wrote some good ones, too. These efforts happen closer to the reality of software development than this forum is.

It is obvious that ArchiCAD's interface has gotten out-of-hand. Leo Kottke, the twelve-string guitarist, in a live concert announced "I'm going to take a lovely melody and drive it right into the ground." We have the parallel in our software. It is daunting to show a new user to ArchiCAD, but just today I got a call from a long-time user who exclaimed how easy it was to get new poeple working productively with it. And so it goes.

This forum is not a good place to whine. Ask Adalbert. This forum is precisely where we share common solutions because we own a culture and need to have productivity today.

I'm rather disappointed in how this forum has evolved in recent years. It seems that there are fewer and fewer enthusiasts who are well-rounded operators and know the tricks who are willing to share. And more and more two post whiners. That's too bad. We had quite a dynamic community at one time, say five years ago.

If you delve into any forum filled with real people doing real tasks (not kidstuff marketing fluff) you see that the whole world of software development is a rotten slimy cave.

Except Adobe where they have substituted fluffy bunnies for slime.

[Rob]

I'm rather disappointed in how this forum has evolved in recent years. It seems that there are fewer and fewer enthusiasts who are well-rounded operators and know the tricks who are willing to share. And more and more two post whiners. That's too bad. We had quite a dynamic community at one time, say five years ago.

In my opinion it's rather reflecting a certain mood about the progress in AC development among the users at the moment than overall wiliness to be enthusiastic and cheerful...

[Richard Morrison]

Dwight wrote:
We had quite a dynamic community at one time, say five years ago.

Five years ago the enthusiasm was rampant because we KNEW we had the best, and the future seemed bright. Today, we keep looking over our shoulder and wondering.

[archislave]

It seems that the tomb doors are creaking open and the silken cobwebs are singeing from the fire within

Really, the glacial pace of development, lack of marketing, and innovation have quelled everyones enthusiasm. There are things that blow me away in using Archicad in their usefulness and even thoughtfulness. There are there things lacking like powerful footings, mulit-story composite walls that are unbelievable after twenty years.

I have been going crazy trying to use the model for working drawings without resorting to 2d patches and drafting. I mean this stuff needs to be built in and localized within each country by people who really know that market.

I'm glad you 'long timers' are pushing development, but to us new users (1 year) it is hard because we don't have an inside track and it appears so hopeless. I'm afraid v10 will underwhelm us once again

Wouldn't 10 have been the perfect number to really redo the interface and take care of all the wishes. They need some venture capital like Revit got during it's start. Autodesk has not taken it very far in over three years however.

I wish Archicad and this forum could become hot once again.

[Scott Davis]

Autodesk has not taken it very far in over three years

IMO, Revit developed more in the past three years than any other. Revit 4.5 was the last RTC release, and now Revit 9.0 is expected in 2 months. The shear magnatude for how much this product has improved since 4.5 is overwhelming. (and it was REALLY good back then). Worksharing, "Building Maker" and the massing tools, Revit Structures, Revit Systems (soon), an API, and so much more. Every release has blown away the previous. Revit 10 is already well underway, and will be released in the Spring of 2007. Last year we got Structures, this year, Systems (MEP), and next year we are to get another new branch of the Revit platform, although there are too many rumors as to what that is to speculate.

So I have to disagree with your statement that Autodesk hasn't done much with Revit.....they are banking their BIM-reputation on it, and pumping a ton of resources into it to assure its success and dominance in the profession.

[Dwight]

Over a year ago, AutoDesk took the back page of Cadalyst magazine with two soccer players (footballers) kicking a cabbage.

Marketing money will win regardless of the product quality.

[archislave]

Scott. I used Revit for residential and light commercial in the summer of 2004 and it basically has not made roof creation any better. You have to enter a separate sketch session to edit it and ok the changes. The roof ridges and hips disappear and all you see is the overhang lines. I found it impossible to work like that. Archicad roofs do not link to the walls below unfortunately, but you get to edit and interact fluidly. And it does not constantly warn you about invalid associations.

I would also find that I had moved something and later saw that it grabbed many other things with it because of the linking philosophy. Revit needs to loosen up and not try to be so accrurate. I feel more mechanical when I use Revit. Neither product is great in all areas

I imagine a product of greatness would come out of a marriage between Revit and Archicad.

[Richard Morrison]

Scott wrote:
IMO, Revit developed more in the past three years than any other. Revit 4.5 was the last RTC release, and now Revit 9.0 is expected in 2 months. The shear magnatude for how much this product has improved since 4.5 is overwhelming.

I'm not sure this speed of development is necessarily a good thing. As an outside observer, I get the feeling that trying to learn Revit and then cope with all of the rapid upgrades feels like trying to jump into a torrential river and then swim. It would certainly give ME hesitation about jumping into a fire-hose blast of features. I'd worry that I'd go on a two week vacation and miss a couple of upgrades-- then I'd be struggling to keep up.

Also, in monitoring the AUGI forums over the past couple of years, I've noticed that the postings have transitioned from "how could I do this?" postings, to complaints about bugs, bewilderment on how to use the multitude of new features, and far more "arrggghhh"s than there used to be. Not surprisingly, introducing all these new features at such a rapid rate is also introducing a whole lot more bugs and user confusion.