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About Archicad's design tools, element connections, modeling concepts, etc.

Windows and doors - The biggest BIM weakness of Archicad still not taken seriously

Johan Cosandey S22
Contributor

Dear Graphisoft, 

 

I love Archicad but there is one specific topic that has been causing me headaches for many years. It seems that you do not recognize this as a real and important issue but I'd like to know if we can hope to have a solution soon because it is impacting us negatively on more and more projects.

 

My problem is that layers of composite walls that "turn" on windows and doors are only displayed correctly in the 2d symbolic view. The 3D model cannot be modeled correctly with a finish or insulation turning inside a window. 

 

I've made 2 simple examples that you'll find attached to illustrate my problem :

 

Example A is very simple, with the external finish being turned toward the window frame. The 2D is perfect but the turned finish layer does not exist in 3D. 

Exemple A.jpg

 

Example B is a little bit more complex. The windows is aligned on the interior side of the wall and we have to add an insulation layer and a turned finished layer. 

Exemple B.jpg

 

This is even more absurd as you can display it correctly in symbolic plan view but not on sections as they are purely 3D drawings... How can an Archicecture tool not handle this correctly? Yes I know, it's because of GDL and because there is a symbolic plan view and sections are 3D views... That is not an explanation. We need a 3D tool that is a real 3D tool. Not a mix of 2D and 3D.

 

These are simple examples but it can become more complex depending on the type of construction method.

Of course, some users will suggest to use additional complex profiles to compensate for this weakness of Archicad and obtain a realistic 3D model. We do that when we have no other options but when you work on hundreds of windows it is not a viable solution. 

That is not an acceptable solution for a software that pretends to be a one of the best in BIM. 

 

An architecture BIM tool that is not capable of modeling correctly the most basic and essential element of a building is not going in the right direction. 

We need this level of 3D modeling not just for complexe and demanding BIM projects but for our smaller and easier projects too.

 

Door and windows renewal is on the public roadmap under "idea pool"...

I guess this would need an update on the wall tool, a topic that many have asked for for many years too...

 

So, if someone from Graphisoft reads this, could you please give us your point of view on this topic?

Are there plans in the near future to give us the ability to create 3d models that could be accepted by a BIM manager without losing hundreds of hours of work in workarounds?

 

Thank you for your answer and best regards 

 

Johan

 

Edit : small typo corrections

Archicad 27 | mac m1
6 REPLIES 6
Johan Cosandey S22
Contributor

I'd like to add one additional topic regarding doors and windows that emphasizes the weakness of these 2 tools : 

Archicad doors do not let us create the appropriate dimensions in plan. 

In our country (maybe we are the only ones to do this), we must give the door opening size taking into account the total thickness of the floor complex so that the mason (or plasterer) can create the appropriate opening from the concrete slab.

 

Here's a quick example : 

We need to create a dimension with a void height of 219.5 (from the concrete slab to the top of the door opening) but it is impossible in Archicad... 

 

Capture d’écran 2024-02-16 à 14.17.39.jpg

Capture d’écran 2024-02-16 à 14.18.14.jpg

Edit : the only solution is to use a functionality of the doors to extend the opening but doors but there is a GDL bug in the doors that makes it not work properly...

 

The consequence? 

1) Some colleagues have forgotten this problem in the past and ended up with several dozens wrong door openings that the mason had to cut and repair so that the door could fit in the wall...

2) We create complexe and error prone properties to handle this and put linked text in the doors... Again, hours spent correcting a software weakness....

 

I already looked in the door GDL code and it seems possible to obtain this information (complete void height from the base of the wall or slab). 

 

I have multiple clients working with Archicad that have been having the exact same issue for years and the accumulation of errors and lost hours is becoming a real problem...

Archicad 27 | mac m1

I know this is a long shot, but wouldn't it yield correct information if you put an offset to the door that matched the thicknes of the floor?

 

Even better would be to model the floor in each room?

 

.Kamelite

Windows 10, Archicad 27

Hi Kamelite,

 

The offset does indeed almost bring a solution to this problem but there is a bug in the GDL of doors... (I tried explaining it in my previous answer but my English is not always as clear as I want 😅).

 

If you only put an offset under the door, the dimensions won't show the correct height of the openning, no matter what you do.

You need to put an offset to at least one side if you want dimensions to take the bottom offset into account... (we already transmitted this bug to Graphisoft but the answer was that it is not a priority...)

Here's an illustration of this behavior : 

 

A1.jpgB1.jpg

 

We made a variant of this consisting on putting a 1cm offset on the right-left-top sides (corresponding to our fabrication margins) and put the height of our floor complex as a bottom offset. It works but creates a "void" on the side and top of the door which is not working graphically in some instances. 

 

What is baffling is that the GDL object is aware of the height difference between the door and the bottom of the wall but dimensions cannot access this information. 

 

I am not sure if I get you second proposition to model the floor in every room. We systematically model floors as separate slabs. 

 

Thank you and best regards

Archicad 27 | mac m1

Do you meen something like this?

Kamelite_0-1708099810056.png

Here, the actual height is reflected in the Doortag...

 

.Kamelite

Windows 10, Archicad 27
mthd
Ace

Hi @Johan Cosandey S22, I think that all basic architectural building elements should always be the priority. In the high demanding world of 3D documentation we shouldn’t have to spend hours to make basic elements look correct in 3D. If that’s not the priority then what is ? No need to answer the RM makes it clear. GS please more focus on the basic elements in Archicad to help us all.

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Hi
I hope that GS gives your topic, the attention it deserves

I suggest you specify that "Reveal and wall closures still not showing in 3D" on the title of your post to avoid replies with less related topics like the one from Johan Cosandey S22.

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