Let everyone vote on wishlist, not just SSA subscribers

[ethanbodnar]

Would love to please have a fair and transparent Wish voting process? As a non-subscriber I'm not allowed to vote on wishes. That's really not very inclusive of the community here that we have with Archicad. We've spent $5k+ with Graphisoft but they don't want to hear from us. It's weird because I even have some of my own submitted ideas on the Wishlist that I can't vote for myself.

One of the main reasons I'd let my subscription lapse is because of the lack in development and very slow pace of extrememly basic features, so it's kinda ironic in a way that I can't now vote on those basic features. If everyone can all vote, then we might get a stronger version of Archicad, that would then mean some of us woud consider subscribing again. Thank you for your consideration!

This is kinda meta, but this is my wish, so I think you can vote on this wish as well probably 😉

Operating system used: Mac Intel-based

[Bricklyne Clarence]

There's some rather bizarre circular logic going on here as I try to decipher Graphisoft's reasoning in all this 

(no doubt, always a perilous task).

This isn't a personal attack against anyone in particular, but rather I'm just trying to understand the thinking here:-

• And if you are not paying for future version updates, why would it matter if there are any wishes granted or not?

Wouldn't it matter to the people currently on Perpetual license mode who are currently deciding whether to make the jump to Subscription (versus switching to another platform altogether) - particularly to know whether their continued or renewed investment will be worth the money in knowing that Graphisoft are actually committed to taking the company in a direction that finally addresses their needs?

Which is particularly pertinent when you consider the fact that a large part of the reason why a considerable number of users are now on Perpetual licenses rather than Sbscription are doing so is because they've long felt a Subscription license isn't worth it given the weak updates and releases Graphisoft having been putting out in recent years.

Which in itself is also in turn a function of the fact that in the past - when they could make wishes -  their wishes have been routinely and consistently ignored by Graphisoft, as they went their own way in terms of the program's development.

So they're loyal users for many years, and try to contribute to the software's development and future by participating in Beta testing and providing feedback either directly from those beta-testing sessions, or more generally in the form of Wishes in the Wishlist section.

Their requests get routinely ignored, and many make the decision in the interest of their own companies' financial wellbeing to take on Perpetual license mode, which affords them the flexibility to upgrade when they see a version upgrade that's actually worth it, versus holding their powder when they do not (which is more often than not these days).

Graphisoft see falling revenue from users not upgrading with each verison they put out so they make the decision to (eventually) make Subscription the Law of the Land and the only way you'll eventually be able to use the software (let's not get into all the drama of "they promised they wouldn't but now they are"), and possibly as part of that decision, to entice Perpetual license holders to make the switch themselves, they also initiate this whole Wishlist section "Spring-cleaning" initative to finally address some popular  long-standing issues (begs the question of why they didn't address them before, but let's put that aside).

HOWEVER....

You Perpetual license holders (whom you'd think would have the greatest interest in this initiative, seeing as they're the ones at the crossroads of deciding whether to switch to Subscription or find another software solution altogether) can't take part in this initiative by voting for any wishes, because,...."we can't guage your future commitment to our software's development as non-Subscription holders, therefore your voices don't count/shouldn't count".

Am I the only one seeing something terribly wrong with that reasoning?

Besides which, I could turn that question right around and ask (Subscription folks),...

... "Why should it matter to Subscription licensees what wishes are actually addressed by Graphisoft at this point, ....or if any at all, ......when you consider the fact that once they have your subscription fees, it doesn't really matter whether or not they actually do, since you're paying for it either way and have very little recourse or options at that point?

Or when you consider the other rather annoying fact that their own history suggests that they're not likely to stay committed to this current drive to address Wishes important to their users and will more than likely revert to ignoring users and pursuing their own internal priorities ahead of users' needs?"

Likewise, (in response to the initial question), wouldn't it also matter to potential new users who are currently not ArchiCAD users at all, but who are considering switching to the software, to know not just what potential features and wishes the developers are looking to addressbut also  the degree to which Graphisoft would be committed to responding to users' wishes?

[Barry Kelly]

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@Bricklyne Clarence wrote:

This isn't a personal attack against anyone in particular, but rather I'm just trying to understand the thinking here:-

• And if you are not paying for future version updates, why would it matter if there are any wishes granted or not?

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That was just me saying that, and remember I am not Graphisoft.

I am just like any member of this community saying what I think and my interpretation of the situation.

Sure as moderator I have a little more inside knowledge, but I will always try to explain things as I see them.

And I won't take anything personally, so long as it doesn't get personal.

Where do you draw the line for someone that can vote or not?

Someone that hasn't updated for the last one or two versions should be able to vote, because they a almost familiar with the latest versions and maybe they will decide to upgrade again in the future?

Or someone that has a perpetual license for version 12 and hasn't upgraded in the last 15 years and probably never will?

Everyone can of course have their opinions and even make a wish.

They just can't vote for any wishes.

I know this is not quite the same but it is the best analogy I could think of.

There is an election coming up in England.

I am English, but I no longer live there - so it is a bit like I used their software, but I don't any more.

I used to live there and maybe one day I will go back.

But I can not vote in that election.

I can of course have my say, I just can't vote.

Barry.

[Bricklyne Clarence]

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@Barry Kelly wrote:

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..............

I know this is not quite the same but it is the best analogy I could think of.

There is an election coming up in England.

I am English, but I no longer live there - so it is a bit like I used their software, but I don't any more.

I used to live there and maybe one day I will go back.

But I can not vote in that election.

I can of course have my say, I just can't vote.

Barry.

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You're right in that it's not the most elegant analogy for the simple reason that many countries allow their expatriate citizens who haven't lived within their borders for up to several decades to still take part in their elections and referenda. Including, I believe (and you might correct me on this seeing as you're a former Brit yourself. However my infomation on it comes from my current British citizen sister),...the United Kingdom - which had the odd situation where several expatriate citizens who were living, and had been living in the EU in European continental countries (most of them in retirement in southern European countries) for several years, were still able to vote in the Brexit referendum to demand their country (which they weren't living in) leave the EU (where they were currently living in). But I digress.

The point being, you can still have a vested interest in the software despite not having used it for a long time - or more pertinently, not having used the most current version or versions. Especially if a permanent switch to Subscription-only model is on the cards and it's a decision that affects whether or not you'll still keep using the software at all going forward.

As to where I'd draw the line, I'd imagine someone on ArchiCAD 12 isn't as vested in any wishes that might affect ArchiCAD 28, 29 and upwards, in the same way that someone who stopped upgrading at ArchiCAD 22 or 23 would be.

A lot of Perpetual license holders adopted the "upgrade every  other version" or "upgrade every other two versions" methodology or pattern for upgrading depending on what their financial situations allow - and again, it's because it's been a long time since Graphisoft actually delivered consecutive or several consecutive versions with feature upgrades worth upgrading for that would entice those license holders to break their pattern and upgrade consecutively.

I'd argue that locking out license holders who are still on ArchiCAD 22 or even 21, would be somewhat unfair on them because you're effectively punishing them for not seeing any value in 4-5 versions that objectively did not offer much for ARCHITECTURAL users to upgrade for.

And who might otherwise have voted to support wishes of items they'd have liked to see imrpoved in those intervening versions (23-27 mainly).

In my own personal opinion, versions 21 and 22 had the last significant upgrade of tools of architectural importance to users (The Stair/Railing tool for 21 and the Curtain wall update in 22) depending on which of those two tools were more significant to your practice. Maybe somewhere around there is  where you draw the line?

I don't know.

Is the assumption that people who are not going to use the software going forward anyway, are still going to muddy the waters by voting for wishes? What would be the purpose of that?

To me that makes even less sense than someone deciding to cross the border into another country to take part in their elections and vote for something that will have zero impact in their lives anyway.

Or even more precisely, someone heading over to the Revit or Vectorworks forums and voting on wishes for their respective future software versions.

Like I said, this whole thing doesn't make that much sense to me.

Especially if you imagine that part of the whole point of this whole "exercise" is to convince "them" - those unentusiastic non-updaters that the switch to Subscription (and therefore sticking with the software rather than turning away) will be a worthwhile decision  - but then you turn around and effectively tell them that their voice and input is not needed at all in any way, and not even in the way that it was ostensibly being ignored before.

[jl_lt]

Even Mexico, of all countries and for whatever reasons, offers  that,  that is, the possibility of voting while abroad...  So maybe Graphisoft can pull it off too: one license = one vote?

I also liked the idea of voting on Revit forums every now and then...

[thesleepofreason]

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@Bricklyne Clarence wrote:

Like I said, this whole thing doesn't make that much sense to me.

Especially if you imagine that part of the whole point of this whole "exercise" is to convince "them" - those unentusiastic non-updaters that the switch to Subscription (and therefore sticking with the software rather than turning away) will be a worthwhile decision  - but then you turn around and effectively tell them that their voice and input is not needed at all in any way, and not even in the way that it was ostensibly being ignored before.

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Add to that the fact that with 87 000 community members the top wish currently has 50 votes which suggests that there wont be any issue at all with one GSID= one vote (although I guess that GS prefers to look at that as a silent majority).

And it should also be pointed out that until proven otherwise this is nothing more than a hint to an effort to read and organise wishes - which obviously isn't the same as a commitment to a user/community driven development. So it is not like unduly supported wishes risks pulling the development off track. I'm quite sure we will end up with top wishes getting the usual "these are all great/good/interesting ideas BUT -insert excuse as to why it can't be implemented-" that we have seen in live QAs.

Putting this all together makes it obvious that conditioning participation to a subscription licence is nothing but an effort to increase its perceived value - or simple greed.

[mthd]

@thesleepofreason wrote “Add to that the fact that with 87 000 community members the top wish currently has 50 votes which suggests that there wont be any issue at all with one GSID= one vote (although I guess that GS prefers to look at that as a silent majority).”

Valid point made here. That shows that the current system needs to change because 50 likes from 87k is tiny. No wonder GS doesn’t rely on this for wishes and what they will put into future versions.

The whole system needs to be overhauled starting with the GSIP “Graphisoft Insiders Program” being extended. I am not aware of how many are actually in that program but it would be good to know. It might be good to include others who may not be using the current version but are still active users of the software ?