ARCHICAD 23 - LAYER NAMING CONVENTIONS? (USA Template)

[rob2218]

Just downloaded my copy of AC23.
First thing I went to check was....the layer naming convention.

Why does Graphisoft continually keep changing the layer naming conventions on their template files from "Walls Exterior" to "A-Wall-Exterior"????

Please guys, can you stick to ONE freakin' layer naming convention?
I believe the AIA layer naming convention of "Dicipline-plane of 3d space-sub descriptor-subdescriptor" works best.......A-WALL-EXTR..............A-WALL-INTR.....any try to stick to a 1-4444-4444-**** type format....it puts everything in place when organization it KEY.

[DGSketcher]

Podolsky's list also shows another classic problem of code sorting where the "Annotation" and "Dimension" (title / lead) layers are listed at the end of the sub layers. This may be by choice, and it could be changed by adding "00-" before the "T" and "D", but I would like to see a scaleable layer system with parent & child layers where hiding the parent layer hides all the sub layers. This probably has less benefit to annotation, but would certainly help with modelling more complex structures like roofs.

[Podolsky]

For me layers problem today sounds more and more strange. It looks like Revit developers were right, saying that layering system is something from old CAD's and introduced strict building element classification with no layers.
We can have classification actually instead of layer and show/hide them - I'm sure that will work very good - and this is from where you can get parent-child dependencies.

So currently I'm looking at layers only to solve the problem of compatibility with national standards.

Maybe these two improvements can make some sense - ability to have code and description in layers and show them in two columns and to use classification system instead of layers. And in general to map these two - layers and classification.

There was a case - I've seen how one person desperately has been applying Uniclass 2015 classification to elements (of course manually) and thought he is doing very good and important work to improve BIM in UK. Finally, I just created expression based property, that converts layer name into full Uniclass (because layers in UK are Uniclass).

[Erwin Edel]

In NL the accepted classification standard and layer naming are the same system already. I do like the filtering power of layers and layer combinations in ArchiCAD though!

There is also a good synergy between layers and classification where it is easy to specify elements when the time is there in the course of the project and as a double check to find any mistakes.

We have a 4 digit classification system and the layer convention uses the first 2 digits. So a floor would be 23 and a structural floor that is freely suspended (hope I'm translating this right) would 23.21. Finding something else drafted with a slab on layer 23, but classified as some other chapter then is something that is more easily spotted.

For the original topic: I do understand the frustration of huge name changes in the shipped template with version changes. However, if 'they' did things right, the internal identity number of the layer would still be the same and it would be easy to fix the names with attribute manager by using your existing template and overwriting theirs and your existing layer combination can then also be used and added in the same way.

[Podolsky]

I think layers and their connection to classification - it something that needs to be reviewed in upcoming versions of ArchiCAD. If we would be able to switch between using layers and classification as layers (having then classifications combinations) - that would be something interesting.
With new ArchiCAD features layers - as they are, started to loose some of their initial power and need. When we have internal and external properties, renovation properties - all this information, that was initially stored and managed only by layers, can be managed another ways, so we actually don't really need anymore layers as "existing" and "internal" walls, for "existing" and "to be demolished" and similar. As well we don't need to create additional layers for options - we can use renovation filter for this purpose instead. And so on.

[Erwin Edel]

Out of curiousity, I had a look at our template. We currently have 60 layers that are used for modelling elements and maybe 10 that are used for zones. Some of those are often used for only 2D symbols in non-BIM projects (electrical outlets and the sorts).

Then we have another 45 or so layers that are used for annotation, elevation markers etc. We've got quite a few of these due to also doing structural drawings that requires the stacking of ussually two different floor plans

I do like the Dutch system, it's very lean. We put things on layers with those first 2 digits and then use the classification to further diversify for IFC exports.

Things would get very bloated if it is divided up in the full 4 digit classification. It seems to me that some countries have this in their layer naming convention and I can see things getting unwieldy then and having the need to create subgroups.

[DGSketcher]

GS are quite familiar with groups & subgroups, the view map being the obvious example. That same principle of codes + description should be applied to all areas of AC including layer / classification naming and numerous other attributes & features. The sorting and managing of data should be scaleable and presented in a user friendly way to help our workflow e.g. a simple project may have just a single layer for walls, a complex project may have several levels & subgroups for wall types, but the crucial thing is it should be adaptable to user need, whether that is using national standards or localised convention, at present we have too many long lists where finding what needs managed takes longer than necessary.

[rob2218]

yeah...dunno. Not too keen with layers being "numbers" vs something simple and straight-forward like:
A-WALL-EXTR-XXXX

or

A-FLOR-SLAB-XXXX

seems very easy to just read the dicipline, then the layer descriptors and make out pretty much to 99% just by looking at these 4-letter columns what that layer is.

[Marc H]

Might I suggest a read of Ken Huggins Power of One and Seven Simple Layers article on his Archichazz site ( https://archichazz.com/ ) for an innovative path forward?

[Podolsky]

Interesting to see how posts always bending in the directions out of the topics. The main message of this discussion that exist national CAD standards and ArchiCAD is not always supporting those standards, can support but has problems with representation of layer names and is not that flexible as it possible could be...

[Marc H]

rob2218 wrote:

Why does Graphisoft continually keep changing the layer naming conventions on their template files from "Walls Exterior" to "A-Wall-Exterior"????.

Please pardon if my post was tangent to the original question (above). I, too, had the same question when looking to keep alignment with conventional layer naming over the past few years. I just thought the reference may help inform. For example, he indicates his experimentation with some of the conventions mentioned in the topic thread. It may explain why GS has not settled on a particular format or syntax, as there are so many options. While it may be expedient to install one ‘out of the box’, most everyone will still change them for their own business application/s.