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25000 s.f. project taking 4 hours to update 3D document

Mjules
Booster
The standard BIM software used in Quebec is Revit even at the level of European firms based there. One of the fundamental reasons is that more time is spent drawing with ArchiCAD in projects from 25 000 to 200 000 square feet. ArchiCAD updates drawings anytime and the option to control these updates doesn't work properly. Time is so precious that these firms prefer using a BIM software that is much better suited to delivering projects on time.

Enclosed is a screenshot related to the power used by ArchiCAD for a simple project of 25 000 sqf. The second file includes an update, which can take up to 4 hours to generate the 3D document. No firm in Quebec can accept such time consuming.
bouhmidage wrote:
Hello !
i'm planning to move to Canada as Permanent Resident in the next year, i'm an archicad user since 2010, i use it for all my jobs, BIM modelling and coordination , and teaches it in the north american university
What are the chances of finding jobs in Canada?
Thanks !
Martin Luther Jules
AC 10-25 (Full)
Alienware | 64 GB RAM | Windows 10
34 REPLIES 34

Laszlo Nagy
Community Admin
Community Admin
Mjules wrote:
Enclosed is a screenshot related to the power used by ArchiCAD for a simple project of 25 000 sqf. The second file includes an update, which can take up to 4 hours to generate the 3D document. No firm in Quebec can accept such time consuming.
4 hours to generate a 3D document?
I dare to say that if a building this size takes this much time, then in more cases than not it is user error.
Also, a building this size using 20 GB!!! of RAM?
How many polygons are there in that 3D model?
....................................................................................................
Laszlo Nagy, Lead Moderator, Community Admin
Get Archicad Tips at https://twitter.com/laszlonagy
AMD Ryzen 1700X CPU, 48 GB RAM, NVidia GTX 1060 6GB, 500 GB NVMe SSD
2x28" (2560x1440), WIN10 PRO ENG, AC20-AC25
Loving Archicad since 1995

To offer a bit Dutch directness: how accurate is the modelling?

I've had to deal with sloppy modelling from colleagues in the past and they can really ramp up the time needed to genarate views.

For example: tiny holes in complex profiles or lots of unnecesarry nodes on straight elements.

Also consider things like level of detail in 3D (which can be controlled by model view options) for views that are on a fairly large scale. Taking into account line thickness you can ussually dial down the 3D detail for things at 1:100 or 1:200 scale and above.

Or simply hide certain layers. For example for elevations you do not need to show a lot of interior elements.

I certainly do not have issues with projects of similar size (2.000 to 5.000 m²). We use fairly entry level HP workstations with Xeon processors and 16 to 32 GB RAM.
Erwin Edel, Project Lead, Leloup Architecten
www.leloup.nl

ArchiCAD 9-24 NED FULL
Windows 10 Pro
Adobe Design Premium CS5

Mjules
Booster
Thanks for your comments, Laszlo!

I have 2 927 574 polygons. I checked out the model, settled the polygons' level of detail on "schematic", and there have been no errors so far.
LaszloNagy wrote:
Mjules wrote:
Enclosed is a screenshot related to the power used by ArchiCAD for a simple project of 25 000 sqf. The second file includes an update, which can take up to 4 hours to generate the 3D document. No firm in Quebec can accept such time consuming.
How many polygons are there in that 3D model?
Martin Luther Jules
AC 10-25 (Full)
Alienware | 64 GB RAM | Windows 10

bouhmidage
Enthusiast
Looks like you're working on a laptop,
even if it's a gaming laptop, performance won't be as good as a workstation,
AMD Ryzen 9 3900X, 32 GB RAM, RTX 3080 10 GB

Archicad 23

Windows 10 professional

https://www.behance.net/Nuance-Architects

Mjules
Booster
I work on an Alienware Gaming Desktop Computer: https://www.dell.com/en-ca/gaming/alienware-desktops
Because of my love for ArchiCAD, I've done everything to accommodate myself to its technical requirements.
bouhmidage wrote:
Looks like you're working on a laptop,
even if it's a gaming laptop, performance won't be as good as a workstation,
Martin Luther Jules
AC 10-25 (Full)
Alienware | 64 GB RAM | Windows 10

Laszlo Nagy
Community Admin
Community Admin
Mjules wrote:
Thanks for your comments, Laszlo!

I have 2 927 574 polygons. I checked out the model, settled the polygons' level of detail on "schematic", and there have been no errors so far.

Just out of curiosity: with the "Schematic" options active, what is the polygon count?
(3 million polygons for a project this size means many elements are modeled/generated to a very high - maybe unnecessarily or unworkably high - level of detail.)
....................................................................................................
Laszlo Nagy, Lead Moderator, Community Admin
Get Archicad Tips at https://twitter.com/laszlonagy
AMD Ryzen 1700X CPU, 48 GB RAM, NVidia GTX 1060 6GB, 500 GB NVMe SSD
2x28" (2560x1440), WIN10 PRO ENG, AC20-AC25
Loving Archicad since 1995

Mjules
Booster
More than 2 800 000, and I can't set morph elements with the schematic option.
LaszloNagy wrote:
Mjules wrote:
Thanks for your comments, Laszlo!

I have 2 927 574 polygons. I checked out the model, settled the polygons' level of detail on "schematic", and there have been no errors so far.

Just out of curiosity: with the "Schematic" options active, what is the polygon count?
(3 million polygons for a project this size means many elements are modeled/generated to a very high - maybe unnecessarily or unworkably high - level of detail.)
Martin Luther Jules
AC 10-25 (Full)
Alienware | 64 GB RAM | Windows 10

jl_lt
Contributor
Hi mr Joules. Something might be wrong with the model or the computer (nice design by the way, congratulations on that!), its a big project but not as big as to be taking soooooo long. How many plans and layouts do you have? As Mr. Nagy asks, is there too much detail in individual elements?
Im working on a 14,000 square feet project on a 65,000 sqr ft terrain with many trees. Dont know how many polygons i have, file is 800mb, most of which comes from the template. If i take 3d view with shadows, furniture, all trees and the terrain (which somewhat steped and has quite a few SEO on other meshes to simulate land fills and cuts) it doesnt take more than 10seconds. I also run on a gamer 3 year old laptop with 16GB Ram.

Mjules
Booster
I have different kind of layouts for conceptual approaches, urban design strategies, passive design strategies, site analysis and occupancy load, construction documents, HVAC systems, etc.
jl_lt wrote:
Hi mr Joules. Something might be wrong with the model or the computer (nice design by the way, congratulations on that!), its a big project but not as big as to be taking soooooo long. How many plans and layouts do you have? As Mr. Nagy asks, is there too much detail in individual elementos?
Im working on a 14,000 square feet project on a 65,000 sqr ft terrain with many trees. Dont know how many polygons i have, file is 800mb, most of which comes from the template. If i take i 3d view with shadows, furniture and all trees, terrain (which have quite a few SEO on other meshes to simulate land fills and cus) it doesnt take more than 10seconds.
Martin Luther Jules
AC 10-25 (Full)
Alienware | 64 GB RAM | Windows 10

jl_lt
Contributor
I just checked a smaller project (without trees, and a much smaller rectangular terrain almost without SEOs) and it reached 380,000 polygones. The one im working now is about 4 times bigger so its safe to assume its around the million polygons (ill check later because it takes a little bit of time with the polycount tool). Still one third of your almost 3million polygons, but the time lapses just dont compare with what you mention

Mjules
Booster
Jl_lt,

Which ArchiCAD version do you use actually? According to my observation, it seems that something is really wrong with the latest version of ArchiCAD. By trying to turn off some layers including structural elements made up of the morph tool as well as the Mesh and the Curtain Wall tools, the file is getting a little bit less heavy. I can't even save the file as the previous version (ArchiCAD 24).
jl_lt wrote:
I just checked a smaller project (without trees, and a much smaller rectangular terrain almost without SEOs) and it reached 380,000 polygones. The one im working now is about 4 times bigger so its safe to assume its around the million polygons (ill check later because it takes a little bit of time with the polycount tool). Still one third of your almost 3million polygons, but the time lapses just dont compare with what you mention
Martin Luther Jules
AC 10-25 (Full)
Alienware | 64 GB RAM | Windows 10

Karl Ottenstein
Moderator
Mjules wrote:
ArchiCAD updates anytime and the option to control these updates doesn't work properly.
Perhaps you could explain what you mean by ARCHICAD updating any time without any control. There is no automatic update process... you get a pop-up notifying you of an update and it is under your control when to download and when to install the update. Maybe you're thinking of some other software?
One of the forum moderators   •   AC 25 USA and earlier   •   MacOS 11.6.1, iMac Pro

Mjules
Booster
I'm talking about ArchiCAD, Karl, a software I've been using since the version 10.
Karl wrote:
Mjules wrote:
ArchiCAD updates anytime and the option to control these updates doesn't work properly.
Perhaps you could explain what you mean by ARCHICAD updating any time without any control. There is no automatic update process... you get a pop-up notifying you of an update and it is under your control when to download and when to install the update. Maybe you're thinking of some other software?
Martin Luther Jules
AC 10-25 (Full)
Alienware | 64 GB RAM | Windows 10

Barry Kelly
Moderator
Mjules wrote:
I'm talking about ArchiCAD, Karl, a software I've been using since the version 10.

So you don't mean Archicad is updating.
You are talking about sections and elevations re-generating?

So if you set the elevation to "Manual-rebuild Model" instead of "Auto-rebuild Model" in the section settings, it should not re-build (regenerate) until you right mouse click and choose "Re-build from Model".
Be careful with this as even your layouts will not show the correct information any more until you re-build the elevation from model.

Maybe switch the elevations to manual while you are working on the job but be sure to set them back to auto so you don't miss anything.
But I don't see the point of this option, as generally you will always want your elevation to be up to date.
Just use with caution.

Barry.

One of the forum moderators.
Versions 6.5 to 25
Dell XPS- i7-6700 @ 3.4Ghz, 16GB ram, GeForce GTX 960 (2GB), Windows 10
Dell Precision 3510 - i7 6820HQ @ 2.70GHz, 16GB RAM, AMD FirePro W5130M, Windows 10

Mjules
Booster
Barry,

ArchiCAD updates drawings anytime even though we disable the corresponding options in the work environment.

As you said, we can also choose to control the section/elevation regeneration when there are no more major changes to be made in the whole model.
Barry wrote:
Mjules wrote:
I'm talking about ArchiCAD, Karl, a software I've been using since the version 10.
So you don't mean Archicad is updating.
You are talking about sections and elevations re-generating?

Barry.
Martin Luther Jules
AC 10-25 (Full)
Alienware | 64 GB RAM | Windows 10

Barry Kelly
Moderator
Mjules wrote:
ArchiCAD updates drawings anytime even though we disable the corresponding options in the work environment.

Be careful of the terminology used.
Drawings are views placed on layouts - there is an option in the drawing settings to make them update manually or automatically.

Views are saved in the View Map from View Points in the Project Map.
These Views are placed on layouts as Drawings.
Sections and Elevations are View Points and can be saved as Views with various settings.

Sections and Elevations are not Drawings.
As mentioned before they have an option in the settings to make them manual or auto update.

The option in the Work Environment for "Auto-rebuild Model View Control" has nothing to do with views or drawings updating automatically as you open them.
It means when you are editing directly in a viewpoint (section or elevation), they will update automatically to reflect the changes you make.
If this option is manual, then as you move a wall in elevation, nothing that was behind it will update until you choose to rebuild from model.

So you can stop a section/elevation from updating automatically when you open it only in the section/elevation settings.
Likewise a drawing on the layout can be set to manual or automatic in the drawing settings.
But again a reminder, when set to manual use caution.


Barry.

One of the forum moderators.
Versions 6.5 to 25
Dell XPS- i7-6700 @ 3.4Ghz, 16GB ram, GeForce GTX 960 (2GB), Windows 10
Dell Precision 3510 - i7 6820HQ @ 2.70GHz, 16GB RAM, AMD FirePro W5130M, Windows 10

sboydturner
Newcomer
Martin,
Alienware (Dell) computers are known to be not the same quality / performance / value that the brand portrays. Changes to Processor overclocking / RAM timings / SSD's cache etc through the changes in supplies to Dell can have a significant effect on performance.

For large / complex projects you would be much better served using a workstation rather than a gaming PC. Workstations are designed to work hard all day every day and are usually made from top quality, durable components that are tested and proven. They use workstation class video cards such as the Nvidia Quadro and Xeon processors, they are designed to crunch huge amounts of data and would have no issues with a 3M polygon model. A gaming PC is designed to a budget and is typically not maxing out both the processor and video card at the same time so when a software such as AC maxes out both the processor and the video card a the same time the system will throttle back performance.

Project I am currently working on is approx. 19200m2 (210,000 ft2) and at this stage has approx 21,5M polygons with all fitout shown, no view takes hours to process 5-10min at worst. There must be an issue with on object in your model or your computer.

Regrads,
Scott
Mjules wrote:
I work on an Alienware Gaming Desktop Computer: https://www.dell.com/en-ca/gaming/alienware-desktops
Because of my love for ArchiCAD, I've done everything to accommodate myself to its technical requirements.
Scott Boyd-Turner
HP ZBook Studio 15: i7-6820 ,16Gb, 1000Gb SSD, Quadro M1000, Win10 Pro
AC 23 AUS

Mjules
Booster
Thanks for the information, Scott!

I've found the root cause of performance issues. They're related to the structural elements drawn with the Morph tool supporting the glazing system. These morphs appear with more than 600 000 hotspots.

sboydturner wrote:

Martin,
Alienware (Dell) computers are known to be not the same quality / performance / value that the brand portrays.

Regrads,
Scott
Mjules wrote:
I work on an Alienware Gaming Desktop Computer: https://www.dell.com/en-ca/gaming/alienware-desktops
Because of my love for ArchiCAD, I've done everything to accommodate myself to its technical requirements.
Martin Luther Jules
AC 10-25 (Full)
Alienware | 64 GB RAM | Windows 10

Mjules
Booster
Thanks, Barry!

I use the word drawing in its technical sense in architecture, as generally recognized by the National Council of Architectural Registration Boards (NCARB).
Barry wrote:
Mjules wrote:
ArchiCAD updates drawings anytime even though we disable the corresponding options in the work environment.
Be careful of the terminology used.
Drawings are views placed on layouts - there is an option in the drawing settings to make them update manually or automatically.

Barry.
Martin Luther Jules
AC 10-25 (Full)
Alienware | 64 GB RAM | Windows 10

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