4K or Retina displays - do they work with ArchiCAD?

[Anonymous]

Just curious if there will be an updated version of ArchiCad for Apple's Retina Display.

[Anonymous]

I have a new 12 core Mac Pro running dual AMD D700 FirePro cards with a 32" 4K monitor by Dell.

The performance is embarrassing in the 2D window.
Is anyone else having this problem?

[Anonymous]

Buffett wrote:
I have a new 12 core Mac Pro running dual AMD D700 FirePro cards with a 32" 4K monitor by Dell.

The performance is embarrassing in the 2D window.
Is anyone else having this problem?

Contact ArchiCad directly (and post results here). This should be answered by them - probably a software issue, but might be something else.

[Marton Kiss]

Hi Talkers,

allow me to summarize the current situation about running ArchiCAD on 4K displays:

On Windows such displays work quite well with good performance. When the native resolution (3840 x 2160) is used, everything looks smooth and crisp. On smaller 4K displays (24"-30”) such resolution is barely useable, as all texts and graphics items are extremely small. With Windows 8.1 Microsoft introduced a new scaling option, to enlarge texts and UI items. (Control Panel/Screen Resolution> Make text and other items larger or smaller). This new settings is not yet fully supported by ArchiCAD, as a result the UI may be pixelated when using scaled resolutions. This does not affect performance and functionality, so on Windows feel free to go ahead with such display. Of course make sure that your graphics card supports the resolution and provides enough performance to calculate that many pixels.

On Mac we've already implemented support for HiDPI after the first retina MacBook Pros were released. As a result texts, the 2D and 3D windows and many UI elements look clear and crisp, with all resolutions and scaling settings.
On the other hand the performance can really drop in 2D, and only some new Macs provide enough juice for the 3D window. At this point we are actively investigating how we could optimize ArchiCAD to provide better speed, but in many cases there are no technologies available to use.

So at this point I would recommend to wait before investing in such displays, if you are running ArchiCAD on Macs.

Marton

[Anonymous]

Great reply with high info/noise level - too bad this forum solution does not support upvoting answers or choosing best answer 🙂

@Marton: Is this graphics difference between Mac and Windows basically caused by platform differences in the rendering pipeline (DirectX vs Quartz/OpenGL), or is it somehow related to Java (Java 3D)? This might be the wrong forum to discuss this, so feel free to refer me to a place this might already have been discussed (StackOverflow?).

[Marton Kiss]

fatso83 wrote:
@Marton: Is this graphics difference between Mac and Windows basically caused by platform differences in the rendering pipeline (DirectX vs Quartz/OpenGL), or is it somehow related to Java (Java 3D)? This might be the wrong forum to discuss this, so feel free to refer me to a place this might already have been discussed (StackOverflow?).

It's caused by platform differences. OS X has better built in support for retina mode, that we could utilize much easier.

We do not use Java (Java 3D), the 3D window is OpenGL rendered with some additional layers.

Marton

[Anonymous]

I have heard that osx has a low resolution setting that can be applied in a per app basis. Could ArchiCAD Benefit from running the app at the "low resolution mode"?

The new 5k iMac can run at scaled resolutions as well but still remains crisp. It's highest scaled res is higher than their IPS displays but lower than 4k. Would this system setting allow for 2d usability?

[aahatimo]

Are there r iMacs heading to GS to test?
A review of the retina iMac from Barefeats: http://barefeats.com/imac2014b.html
states that:
"The "Best for display" setting of the Retina 5K will be 2560x1440. Using the Displays System Preference panel, you will be able to scale the resolution up or down similarly to how it works with the Retina MacBook Pro. Some apps will offer you the choice of running at the full 5120x2880. Some will not. Whatever resolution you scale it to, the pixels-per-inch (ppi) will remain the same, thereby preserving the 'Retina' effect."
My retina mbp has that same setting and does not use highest, scaled resolution unless selected. So it is capable of running scaled "looks like" 1920x1200 max or for 1024x640 as min scaled display.
Since r iMac would not be running the full rez over the top 5120x2280 but ½ that does GS still not recommend it?

[Marton Kiss]

dapDesign wrote:
I have heard that osx has a low resolution setting that can be applied in a per app basis. Could ArchiCAD Benefit from running the app at the "low resolution mode"?

The new 5k iMac can run at scaled resolutions as well but still remains crisp. It's highest scaled res is higher than their IPS displays but lower than 4k. Would this system setting allow for 2d usability?

Based on our experience the "low resolution mode" does not help to avoid the speed issues that we experienced with such high resolution displays.

Please find more info here: http://helpcenter.graphisoft.com/?p=25888

[MSotero]

Marton wrote:
Based on our experience the "low resolution mode" does not help to avoid the speed issues that we experienced with such high resolution displays.

Please find more info here: http://helpcenter.graphisoft.com/?p=25888

1) Will this be remedied for AC17/18, and if so, what is the projected timing? Or will a fix not come until AC19?

2) Since you indicated it works on a hi res Windows machine, I don't suppose running AC with bootcamp or whatever would make it work properly?

[Jussi_]

I went to store to test 5k imac retina. To my suprise iMac can be run at full 5k resolution making all user interface dialogs tiny. Unreadable from traditional viewing distances. Not for me.

ArchiCad can be downloaded, installed and run on demo mode at store. Even better, bring your own dongle with you. And your own PLN files.

HiDpi or best for retina iMac looks the same as old 27" iMac, except sharper. And how about ArchiCad, looks stellar. Dimension lines, fills, walls - beautiful! This is wonderful hardware indeed. And about the 2d speed. Tolerable or even fine. I am old and have used ArchiCad since 3.x so I can tolerate slowness - did not have 'not slow' testbed hardware next to retina iMac. But I recommend to test ArchiCad at store. Please write your experience to followers here. And Graphisoft, please write to compared to what the speed is slow. And reveal some timetables - not before Ac19 is valid answer. At least I can live with it.

And this was my first run with AC18 - CineRender was terrible slow on retina iMac. I was quite ok with 2d and open gl 3d was smooth. 2d was not instantly there, but is it on some hardware? And CineRender- only thing that was too slow to be worked with. And pre set materials were off too, Artlantis is faster and you see what you get.

My point is that 2d might not be an issue for your projects. 3d open gl is much better than i hoped for. And CineRender is painfully slow.

[Laszlo Nagy]

In this article

http://helpcenter.graphisoft.com/technotes/setup/hardware-compatibility/retina-display-compatibility...

GS says:

Based on GRAPHISOFT’s latest tests the performance of ArchiCAD significantly drops on such displays, including 4K displays as well. As a result, at this point it is not recommended to invest in iMacs with Retina 5K displays or 4K displays.

GRAPHISOFT is actively researching the available technologies to improve the performance on such high-res displays.

Which also means that it is kind of hard to put on a timetable when they actually need to research new technologies to make it work. Also, software developers generally do not make any such promises because of the nature of complex applications is that anything can go wrong, a new bug, some unexpected conflict with another system component or application. So I would not expect a definite answer from GS in this topic.

[aahatimo]

There must be work going on at GS Hungary and other locations for optimizing ArchiCad for 4k displays since mac pro was released 1 ½ years ago.

[Jussi_]

I run ArchiCAD 16 at Retina MacBook Pro 15" mid 2012 2,3 GHz i7 8Gt RAM.

Comparing my current architect work PLN files, how they run on 5K Retina iMac, the cheapest model at computer store desk - there is no slowness. Overall experience is better than on my current machine.
I just recommend to investigate if the 5K machine is ok for you. I ordered one today. Updated to i7 to get 8 threads (demo machine had i5) and paid for updated GPU, too. But demo machine was swift and that screen is marvelous.

Looking architectural plans with dimension lines and complicated hatches is a joy on 5K display - I recommend to pay a visit to a store. Bring your own projects and mouse with you to get the feel of ArchiCAD with the best CAD display ever.

And I took GS warning of performance hit seriously. You should, too. 2K monitor with modern machine might be snappier (than 4K, 5K). Old iMac might even be speedier than retina one. But that screen - it is worth the cost to me. To be honest, many computer stores have retina iMac next to old 27" iMac. Run ArchiCAD side by side.
I bought retina. I promise to report here if I find out there was something wrong with the r iMac and ArchICAD. But your projects or work methods most likely differ from mine. I started with Macintosh IIfx with SuperMac screen that was around 20". And cost more than the machine. I like good screens.

[Anonymous]

I just want to give this post a bump, considering the following link:
http://helpcenter.graphisoft.com/technotes/setup/hardware-compatibility/retina-display-compatibility/

does any one have any experience with long term or major problems with the 5k retina display & AC 18?
We have a 5k retina display & AC 18, and I have only played around with the combination. I have noticed minor slowing in plan view, zooming in/out and going up/down stories. It seems so minor to me that it is really a non-issue, but if there is other reasons to return the computers I would like to hear other users input.

We have heard from GS, it looks like this will not be resolved until after the release of AC 19, so it is a big decision.

[Karl Ottenstein]

Patrick, I'm merging this old thread with a newer thread with more recent discussion.. and changing the title of that thread so that it makes sense to both PC and Mac users. (PC users tend to use 4k/5k term... Mac users tend to use 'retina' terminology.)

Karl

[Stephen Dolbee]

I think there are many Archicad users who would love to have a Retina iMac (I'm one of them). So, I hope GS makes this possible well before the release of AC19. My iMac is 5 years old and still has plenty of power for what I need, but if a major repair comes along...

[aahatimo]

Jussi_,
How is that retina Imac working out with Archicad?

[Jussi_]

aahatimo wrote:
Jussi_,
How is that retina Imac working out with Archicad?

Apple either sells Retina iMacs a lot or has production issues. I am now on my 4th week of waiting. Even the cheapest standard model has 2-3 weeks wait status on Apple Store.

[Marton Kiss]

aahatimo wrote:
Jussi_,
How is that retina Imac working out with Archicad?

Please find here some details: http://helpcenter.graphisoft.com/?p=25888

Marton

[MSotero]

Marton wrote:
Please find here some details: http://helpcenter.graphisoft.com/?p=25888

Marton

Marton,

Might be interesting if you'd post side by side comparison images from ArchiCAD showing the [5K Best Res] + [5K Low Res Mode] + [Standard iMac] showing the same thing for comparison. And would be nice if the images included some text and diagonal lines along with whatever else. Perhaps a dialog box would be helpful too.

Also wondering if the "open in low res mode" equals a standard iMac in terms of image quality and performance or are they something else.

Michael