AC22 - Why can I only override the extrusion surface of a complex profile with modifiers?

[Anonymous]

Am I missing something, because it seems to totally defeat the purpose of having the flexibility of multiple claddings etc on a profile with modifiers if both sides of the wall can only be the one surface! If I change the surfaces of each skin in the complex profile it will change the surfaces of all placed walls. Again - this is not very flexible if you want to reuse the wall profile within the project but have different surfaces.

I've added a doc with screen shots of what I'm talking about. Any help would be much appreciated!!

[Lingwisyer]

As in when using an override your wall faces become a uniform material?

I made a wish not long ago regarding this. Leaving the tool UI as it is and having the ability to "lock" surfaces within a profile or being able to assign surfaces 1 to 3 in correlation to exterior / side / interior override.



Ling.

[Barry Kelly]

If you use the 'Override Surfaces' options in the wall settings, then you will override ALL of the surfaces in the profile, regardless of how you set it up.
So if you want individual surfaces for tiles, cladding skirting, etc., don't use the overrides in the wall settings.

You must set the fills in the profile to the building material that you want.
You can override the surface used in each edge of the fill via the pet palette options if you want a single fill to have different surfaces.

However if you have 2 wall using the same profile, but you want each to have different tiles or different colour paint to the cladding, then it is best to duplicate the profile, give it a slightly different name and amend the building materials or edges to the fills to be what you want.

With profile modifiers now, you can also set up multiple fills for each different tile surface with their own modifiers.
Then use the modifier settings to make one tile width/height zero so you can't see it and give an actual height/width to the tile modifier that you do want to see.
This can get a bit confusing though if you are not careful.

Barry.

[Anonymous]

Thanks Barry!

So I think you are confirming my suspicion that if you want to change one or both surfaces on either side of a complex profile wall from what the building materials / fills are set up as in the profile then you must duplicate it and then change the materials / fills in the complex profile duplicate? It doesn't seem to make using complex profiles as efficient as I'd hoped.

Do you have any links for more reading on the last point you make as I'm not sure I follow?

Also, while I've got you, another thing I have had trouble with with regard to surfaces is that if you duplicate a surface and then customise it, you seem to only be changing the OpenGL settings and not the CineRender settings. So when you go to use that 'custom surface' in the surface painter you end up painting in the unchanged CineRender surface. I don't see how you can change the CineRender surfaces and is there no way of 'painting' with OpenGL created surfaces?

Thanks,
Sarah

[Bricklyne Clarence]

On your last point only:-

When you change or adjust a surface in the OpenGL settings and want the Cinerender settings to match, once you're done with the changes, change the render engine to Cinerender Engine and then at the bottom of the panel (see below) click on 'Match settings....' and then select 'Update CInerender Settings (from Basic)'.

It will update the settings for the Cinerender Engine to match (as close as possible with just the relevant attributes that apply) to what you have in the OpenGL settings.

The process also works in reverse if you change the surface from the Cinerender side to update the OpenGL/Internal Engine settings (in which case you select the other option under 'Match Settings' - 'Update Basic Settings (from Cinerender)'.


It's handy for keeping your materials and surfaces in sync with the two render engines.

[Barry Kelly · Accepted solution]

Sarah wrote:
So I think you are confirming my suspicion that if you want to change one or both surfaces on either side of a complex profile wall from what the building materials / fills are set up as in the profile then you must duplicate it and then change the materials / fills in the complex profile duplicate? It doesn't seem to make using complex profiles as efficient as I'd hoped.

Yes that is correct. There is no inside and outside surface like there is for composite walls.

Sarah wrote:
Do you have any links for more reading on the last point you make as I'm not sure I follow?

There are these videos in the Archicad Youtube channel ...

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnXY6vLUwlWUJmDnD8UGZKPyR9tm4ge8H

Although without going through them all myself I can't remember if they explain what I was saying.
However this image may help to explain.
This profile is default in the AUS template - not sure if is in others.

Sarah wrote:
Also, while I've got you, another thing I have had trouble with with regard to surfaces is that if you duplicate a surface and then customise it, you seem to only be changing the OpenGL settings and not the CineRender settings. So when you go to use that 'custom surface' in the surface painter you end up painting in the unchanged CineRender surface. I don't see how you can change the CineRender surfaces and is there no way of 'painting' with OpenGL created surfaces?

OpenGL and Cinerender surfaces have completely independent settings, so although they are the same surface, they can appear completely different.
However if you go to the Cinerender settings, you will see an option to match the Cinerender with the Basic (OpenGL) settings or match the Basic with the Cinerender settings. (Bricklyne beat me to this one - I won't post the same image).

You are better to match the basic with the Cinerender as Cinerender has many, many more settings.
Matching the other way may destroy some of the Cinerender settings (layers and channels, etc.) that can take quite a long time to set up.

Barry.

[Anonymous]

Bricklyne - that is fantastic! Thank you!

Now the surface painter works fine too

[Anonymous]

Great - thanks Barry. I understand what you mean from that image now. Yes this all makes sense when you know you can't override one surface in the wall setting without overriding all! I hadn't thought about changing the thickness to zero, only the height so that is cool.

It's also good to know that:
"You are better to match the basic with the Cinerender as Cinerender has many, many more settings.
Matching the other way may destroy some of the Cinerender settings (layers and channels, etc.) that can take quite a long time to set up."

I've only just familiarised myself with the surface painter half way through a project so I probably won't need to customise surfaces as often now and I will look up ways of customising the Cinerender surfaces instead.

Thanks very much!!