Artlantis vs Cinema 4D

[archislave]

I would like to settle on a good software to work with Sketchup and Archicad. I have tried Artlantis and it is easy to use and works well with archicad. One thing I don't like is that you can't move or change any of the archicad elements. The renderings are of much better quality than Archicad and quick. I would dare say Artlantis is such a step above and easy to use that why anyone would torture themselves with trying to get high quality renderings from Archicad is beyond me.

I know almost nothing about Cinema 4D except that it works well with Archicad - I hear. I am not considering Maxwell until it is at least in Version 2.

Any insights are appreciated.

[stefan]

kliment wrote:
But I have to make a point - you do not need to learn the whole 3DS Max with all of its modelling and animaton stuff to suit your purpose. I could just learn the simple navigation commands (such as zoom, pan, move, rotate) and the visualization tools (camera, lights, materials) and you are ready to render! I myself had used it this way for several years till I found time to learn some modeling techniques and I still do not know animation at all, because I have never needed it.

You can easily export a 3ds file from ArchiCAD, load it into VIZ/max, remove the ArchiCAD SUN spot, add a Daylight System (set date and time), activate Mental Ray, activate final gathering on preset draft/low and press render. You might want to replace glass, water and other more extended materials with the tremendous Mental Ray Arch & Design shaders and you're ready to go.

--> But mastering such an application takes a long time. I think I understand most of 3ds max (haven't found the time for particle flow and character studio), but I get good results when I find the time. But the workflow is easier and probably faster in Artlantis.

[Djordje]

All this begs another question:

Do you NEED to use Mental Rays and other stuff? How much does it cost to buy the software?

IMHO the inertia of 3D Studio (licensed or otherwise ...) that used to be manageable once upon a time (when XTs still existed ...) brought us to a very different pack of beasts. viz was created for a reason.

I still can't see why architects WASTE TIME with max, unless if strictly in the visualization business. Then, max or C4D pays.

Otherwise - Artlantis gives you 80% of the result with 10% of time investment and 10% of monetary investment. Plus, it renders faster.

I might be wrong, but ... For example, Stefan, do you use all paid or educational licenses? I think you said once that you use EDU, and that you complained often about paying a premium for Archicad once upon a time?

That is one of the reasons for LightWorks. You have invested, now the tool has to pay off ... one way or another.

And ... I don't really think that the client sees the difference between an LightWorks, Artlantis, C4D, Maxwell or Vray rendering. they either like it or not - and we should know how good is good enough. Perfect does not exist. Regretfully so.

[archislave]

I just went through the process of rendering a project that I was being paid $1500. The image woudl be used for fund raising. I can't tell you the hours I spent trying to attain decent quality using Dwights book. The highest point I got took overnight to render. It still looked more like an illustration.

I then downloaded a demo of Artlantis and after a few hours of trial and error I got much more photo-realistic results that rendered in four minutes. Using Archicad for more that quick design checking - and using only the built-in sun (as it is by default) gives very renderings, but low quality renderings. Please don't waste your life away trying to go beyond that with Archicad's Lightworks. Just get Artlantis. I thnk Dwight wrote his book just to humiliate Graphisoft by showing the convoluted and unpredictable process.

I really don't care if they ever improve Archicad since it ties up the app when in rendering. I can still work in Archicad while rendering in Artlantis!

[archislave]

Can anyone speak to the best texture library to invest in. I have thought of buying Dosh textures since I think they can be used in Artlantis, Cinema 4d, and Maxwell. Instead of buying the premium textures from Abvent maybe the Dosch ones would allow me to move up over time.

[stefan]

Djordje wrote:
All this begs another question:
Do you NEED to use Mental Rays and other stuff? How much does it cost to buy the software?

Mental Ray as a rendering engine has become pretty usable, even for non-specialists. It used to be different.
It is included with Softimage XSI, Maya, 3ds max, VIZ and now even AutoCAD. I suppose Revit will follow in the future, since VIZ Render was dropped recently and Accurender in Revit is never updated.

Djordje wrote:
IMHO the inertia of 3D Studio (licensed or otherwise ...) that used to be manageable once upon a time (when XTs still existed ...) brought us to a very different pack of beasts. viz was created for a reason.

I still can't see why architects WASTE TIME with max, unless if strictly in the visualization business. Then, max or C4D pays.

VIZ and 3ds max are popular. They are good but complex tools. It might pay of for architects, when they use these applications also as modelling applications (instead or accompanied by SketchUp, Rhino or FormZ).
They are from Autodesk and since many (not all) architects are using AutoCAD or related software, VIZ and max are a logical choice.

Djordje wrote:
Otherwise - Artlantis gives you 80% of the result with 10% of time investment and 10% of monetary investment. Plus, it renders faster.

I agree.

Djordje wrote:
I might be wrong, but ... For example, Stefan, do you use all paid or educational licenses? I think you said once that you use EDU, and that you complained often about paying a premium for Archicad once upon a time?

I actually have paid for a commercial license for ArchiCAD, but I also use the educational version in the classroom. I keep using my personal license (with the dongle) since it doesn't have banners. The rest are free, cheap or educational versions. I don't use illegal copies.

[stefan]

archislave wrote:
Can anyone speak to the best texture library to invest in. I have thought of buying Dosh textures since I think they can be used in Artlantis, Cinema 4d, and Maxwell. Instead of buying the premium textures from Abvent maybe the Dosch ones would allow me to move up over time.

Currently I tend to look out for Arroway and 3DTotal, but Marlin, Imagecels, Ambientlight are all good.

I have a collection of links on http://caad.asro.kuleuven.be/manuals/visualization/resources.htm

[Karl Ottenstein]

archislave wrote:
Can anyone speak to the best texture library to invest in. I have thought of buying Dosh textures since I think they can be used in Artlantis, Cinema 4d, and Maxwell. Instead of buying the premium textures from Abvent maybe the Dosch ones would allow me to move up over time.

The Abvent 'premium' shader libraries are Dosch libraries - customized for Artlantis. The advantage for an Artlantis user is that they install as immediately usable drag and drop shaders, with proper scale and settings. Purchasing other texture libraries requires that you spend the time to do the setup.

Most of the Abvent/Dosch premium shaders are quite good - with high pixel counts. Some are pretty bad (floor boards that are basically a wood grain with a board-pattern bump map: look fake).

Again: there is a difference between a Dosch library purchased directly from Dosch (it is just texture files: images and bumps/etc) and the same library purchased with the Abvent/Artlantis label (objectsonline, cadgarage, etc): the Abvent version also includes pre-defined shaders that use all of the texture files. If you purchase the Abvent version, all of the JPEGs are there for you to copy/use in other applications including ArchiCAD, so an Artlantis user gets extra value from this package.

All of that said, there are lots of other texture libraries out there as Stefan notes! 🙂

Cheers,
Karl

[archislave]

Karl, that is really good information. I am still kind of confused as to the difference between a shader and texture. I just need to learn more about Artlantis. I heard the new book is not that good?

[Anonymous]

Some of the best texture collections come from Evermotion.

[archislave]

I looked at Evermotion, but they seem to be only for 3d Max.