TwinMotion rendered files - .png

[rm]

Has anyone else here tried using TwinMotion for single frame renderings, the version now owned by Epic? When I output a file, rendered as a single frame, I am getting .png final image. There seems to be no way to output to jpeg or tiff, with the later having way more latitude in PS post production for editing.

That said, the biggest problem I am experiencing is the rendered images look flat and the color has shifted from what I was seeing within TwinMotion, as I set up the scene for rendering. The output is horrible!!!
I use a wide gamut, color corrected display - its not an issue with my display. If it was, the image would look flat while setting up in TwinMotion, this is clearly a TwinMotion output problem.

I have reached out to Epic, but they are as bad or worse than Abvent was in reference to getting support.

Anyone else getting the same result? If so, I don't see how this software can come close to competing with Lumion.

Is there anywhere in the software to select file output type? If so, I cant seem to find it.

Thank you!

[Karl Ottenstein]

Hi Robert,

I just confirmed part of what you're seeing. While we can change the rendered image size to any pixel dimensions, I do not see any way to export in other than PNG format. That said, PNG is superior (lossless) to JPEG and can have any color profile attached - and I'm not sure what TIFF would bring to the table. You can always convert to TIFF in PS if that is useful, but I'm not sure how there is "more latitude" for post production with other formats (other than converting to PSD).

The colors look identical to TwinMotion if I have Photoshop set to use sRGB as the working color space before import. If I use ProPhoto or other, wider, color spaces, I get awful, saturated colors. I can't tell that TwinMotion actually even attached a color profile to the PNG file, as it should have, which may be part of the issue. But, sRGB brings the image in fine for me anyway as a way of moving forward pending Epic's discovery of the intricacies of color spaces and printing, something that they haven't really needed to address as a game maker I imagine.

Cheers,
Karl

[rm]

Hi Karl -

Thanks for your reply. I am coming at this from a photography standpoint. When I get hired to shoot another architects building, I shoot in camera RAW in Adobe RGB color space. I bring the file into Lightroom and edit in the even wider Adobe ProPhoto color space. With final editing in PS, 16 bit saving as a Tif file. If I print, I print from the Tif file as my printer is a wide gamut printer. If I go to web, I convert to sRGB color space because that is a limitation of the web.

That said, the files coming out of TwinMotion are .png files and if you get info on the file, on a Mac, it states the colorspace is generically called "RGB", there is no "RGB" in the world of print. There is sRGB, AdobeRGB or a myriad of other profiles. Perhaps the file is being wrongly named RGB out of TwinMotion.

When I look at the file with Apples preview app, it is immediately noticeable that the color space is shifted from the TwinMotion preview window, colors in the png file look completely inaccurate. If the later is the case, this is going to mean getting accurate results while setting up the seen in TwinMotion is going to be very difficult to do. I assumed what I was seeing in the TwinMotion window, is what I would get in the png file.

As I said, I am working on a calibrated wide gamut display calibrated for Adobe RGB color space. This is what I use for my photography work.

I have attached a screen shot of TwinMotion with the corresponding png file viewed in PS in sRGB space as you suggested. You can see the obvious color shift, its horrible. I actually like the colors of the png file more, but in the end, they do not match.

I cannot figure out what is causing this, but there is no question, the png file is not matching the screen preview from TwinMotion.

Karl wrote:
Hi Robert,

I just confirmed part of what you're seeing. While we can change the rendered image size to any pixel dimensions, I do not see any way to export in other than PNG format. That said, PNG is superior (lossless) to JPEG and can have any color profile attached - and I'm not sure what TIFF would bring to the table. You can always convert to TIFF in PS if that is useful, but I'm not sure how there is "more latitude" for post production with other formats (other than converting to PSD).

The colors look identical to TwinMotion if I have Photoshop set to use sRGB as the working color space before import. If I use ProPhoto or other, wider, color spaces, I get awful, saturated colors. I can't tell that TwinMotion actually even attached a color profile to the PNG file, as it should have, which may be part of the issue. But, sRGB brings the image in fine for me anyway as a way of moving forward pending Epic's discovery of the intricacies of color spaces and printing, something that they haven't really needed to address as a game maker I imagine.

Cheers,
Karl

[Karl Ottenstein]

Hi Robert,

For photography, I work the same way with camera RAW, Adobe RGB / ProPhoto, and Lightroom, but that's another story.

Seems like this must be some issue with conflicting color spaces / profiles and TwinMotion's inability to recognize them...? If you temporarily change from your monitor's saved calibrated color profile back to one of the Apple standard profiles in System Preferences, do you get a better match? Would that mean that TwinMotion is not utilizing the color profile data properly for its own on-screen display? Getting beyond me at this point. 😉

Hope someone else has some ideas.

Cheers,
Karl

[rm]

Hi Karl -

Thanks again for your reply. I had already tried what you suggested. I switched my screen profile hoping for a better match in the .png file. I have one profile set up for print AdobeRGB, one for web sRGB and one for general AC work.

No matter the screen profile I use, TwinMotion is shifting color in the .png file it produces, the .png file always looks more "flat" than the screen color profile in TwinMotion, this is consistent. I am surprised you are not seeing the same result.

I appreciate your willingness to try to sort this out. I wish I knew how to convey this information to them, but they just don't have a way to send them a direct support ticket. They don't seem very interested, yet, to support TwinMotion. I suspect, GS is not going to be offering tech support for TwinMotion problems either.

If we can't rely on what we are seeing in the TwinMotion work screen relative to what you get from the output file, color accuracy wise, whats the point of using this software?

Graphisoft was showing the forthcoming raytracing capability of TwinMotions for the next major update. Let's hope it can produce color accurate images from screen to output file.

I am a Mac user, but given the advances in Arch Viz software like Lumion, I would be willing to switch to a PC for my renderings to use that software. They now have a direct link with AC too.

[Karl Ottenstein]

rm wrote:
I wish I knew how to convey this information to them, but they just don't have a way to send them a direct support ticket. They don't seem very interested, yet, to support TwinMotion. I suspect, GS is not going to be offering tech support for TwinMotion problems either.

Contact Graphisoft US tech support: One of the GS NA consultants is working with Epic - and was at the TwinMotion booth at the Key Client Conference in Las Vegas in June. Unfortunately, I lost his name/contact info when my backpack was stolen when leaving the hotel... but I was surprised that his business card was a Graphisoft one vs an Epic Games one.