Wishes forum
cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

2D pan+zoom support for SpaceNavigator [ADDED in AC17!]

peter_h
Newcomer
3D support in ArchiCAD is great for the 3D view window. But in the 2D window, where I'd spend most of my time, the spaceNav doesn't work AT ALL! You'd think it would allow panning and zoom functions, but no, nothing. Believe it or not, adding this function alone would be more productive for me overall than using sNav in the 3D window.

For those not aware of the 3D mouse, check it out at www.3dconnexion.com
Pete,
Wellington, New Zealand.
Win10pro x64, AC 23 Student.
Intel Xenon E31235 Quad 3.2GHz, 16GB, Nvidia GFX670, 4 x multi-monitor setup, 3dconnexion SpaceExplorer.
25 REPLIES 25

Dwight
Newcomer
I have full sympathy for your cause, but it seems slightly redundant since while building in the 2D window, mouse contact seems to be paramount.

I'm using a five button mouse with a scroll for zoom and a button for pan that keeps my hand on the business end of drawing and editing models.....
and have always felt that to be most important.

I don't miss the feature you crave at all - never occurred to need it.
Dwight Atkinson

peter_h
Newcomer
Dwight: The device is for the other non-mouse hand (usually the left, for most people), so you don't have to take your hands off the mouse.

Imagine panning and zooming with the left hand while point and clicking with the right. Simultaneously. How much faster could you be?

Or even without a SpaceNavigator, imagine being able to plug in a trackball, and have that control the simultaneous panning with your other non-mouse hand.

And then simultaneously zooming with right scroll while panning with the trackball.
Pete,
Wellington, New Zealand.
Win10pro x64, AC 23 Student.
Intel Xenon E31235 Quad 3.2GHz, 16GB, Nvidia GFX670, 4 x multi-monitor setup, 3dconnexion SpaceExplorer.

Dwight
Newcomer
I admire your enthusiasm, but NO SALE.

Entering keyboard shortcuts prevents using a third device.

I think that most users are happy with a properly-configured mouse.
And a gigantic display.

Also: consider increasing your cursor gravity and working at a lesser zoom - this reduces the need to shift the view.
Dwight Atkinson

Matthew Lohden
Newcomer
Dwight wrote:
Entering keyboard shortcuts prevents using a third device.
Nonsense, just type with your nose.
Matthew Lohden
Consultant, SF CA

MacPro 8core 32GB Radeon 5870
OSX 10.8 Mountain Lion, XP32, Win 7x64

Dwight
Newcomer
Only you would think that.
Dwight Atkinson

peter_h
Newcomer
Dwight: Have you used a SpaceNavigator before (enough to get used to it)? I'd bet that if you borrowed one for a couple of weeks, you wouldn't give it back.
Pete,
Wellington, New Zealand.
Win10pro x64, AC 23 Student.
Intel Xenon E31235 Quad 3.2GHz, 16GB, Nvidia GFX670, 4 x multi-monitor setup, 3dconnexion SpaceExplorer.

Dwight
Newcomer
The 3D Space Navigator is a product I recommend for navigating in Artlantis, Archicad and especially Google Earthling.

I have had a Space Navigator since the very beginning [Thank you, 3dConnexion], so my view is based in lengthy Archicad experience, not the enthusiasm of a newbie discovering his twenty-fifth appendage. Of course, it would be nice to use the tool as anyone wishes, but whether or not Graphisoft should spend development resources is the issue.

Experienced users navigating in large floor plan views will establish pre-defined views in their Navigator View list and rely also on the tiny Navigator Preview to jump around to new places. Panning is over-rated, especially once arrow key scrolling was enabled. Were you even aware of arrow key scrolling?

Of course, I'm using a five button mouse with a scroll wheel zoom and have a large display area. Having learned keyboard commands from the days when we didn't have the time-sucking pet palette and other newbie nonsense to rely on, my productivity slows whenever I move my hands from the mouse and keyboard.

It's a simple time-and-motion study.The momentary repositioning and alignment of the hand wastes time when used for a redundant input method like the Space Navigator.

Keyboard for text and commands, mouse for placement and location.

Memorize keyboard commands, fashion your own shortcuts [where Graphisoft spent resources wisely] and you will achieve supreme productivity.
Dwight Atkinson

peter_h
Newcomer
Dwight wrote:
...not the enthusiasm of a newbie discovering his twenty-fifth appendage.
Now Dwight, you can't say something like that AND expect to have the last word...

I have had RSI, so I'm very, very aware of input efficiency, and have a need to off-load work from my mouse hand. I'm not just looking at time taken to move a hand from one place to the next, but the degree to which muscles and nerves are used repetitively, and unnecessarily. Overall, I'm not about to suggest a less efficient way of working.

Yes, I'm aware of keyboard scrolling. It's downfalls are:

1) Arrow keys are located on the right of keyboard, 3 times further away from my left hand, which sits mostly doing my most frequently used keyboard shortcuts, customised as to be all available on the left side of the keyboard. My SpaceNavigator is just the basic knob-only version, not any other version that has other surrounding buttons that stop it sitting right next to my ESC key, barely a left-handed pivot away.

2) Multiple keystrokes are needed - particularly for navigating to a diagonally offset target.

3) It has no subtlety of control. Hold a button down for keyboard repeat and it's easy to over/undershoot your target.

I also use my Views well, as you suggest, but take the attached example, of a corner of a room. Say I was placing a Floor Covering, using a rectangular construction method for a slab. I need to get in that close to pick the correct node. Navigating to the other corner of the room doesn't just take a few arrow keystrokes. Using the Navigator Preview window requires a detour movement to and from the palette, and a click-drag release movement. As opposed to a pivot of the left hand and a push on the SN knob, leaving the right mouse to zero in on the target - a move that can simultaneously overlap with the SN motion, for additional speed.

With the SpaceNavigator enabled in 2D, you could simultaneously zoom, pan and position the cursor on your next target in one smooth overlapping motion.

I don't actually think this additional functionality would take that long for a developer to implement - surely it's just a matter of gluing some input events to the inbuilt zoom and pan functions. I believe in the benefits of this enough that I've offered to give time freely to help implement an interim solution: see this topic here, in the Developer's forum.
Pete,
Wellington, New Zealand.
Win10pro x64, AC 23 Student.
Intel Xenon E31235 Quad 3.2GHz, 16GB, Nvidia GFX670, 4 x multi-monitor setup, 3dconnexion SpaceExplorer.

Dwight
Newcomer
Good for you, in view of the fact that in four weeks of posting there have only been seven votes including only three "essential" votes.

I will gladly beta test for you.
Dwight Atkinson

Sigma
Newcomer
Bump on this one. How come they haven't implemented this yet? I've used solidworks for some years now and cannot live without my SpaceNavigator. Please do implement this ASAP.

I was actually really disappointed to see that it's not useable in 2D mode, and only in 3D, even in 3D its not as good as solidworks. Because in solidworks the "centerpoint of rotation" is changed to the current screen location when the axis' are not in use. And i really miss this feature as well.

Sigma
Newcomer
Is anyone even looking in these forums?

Karl Ottenstein
Moderator
Sigma wrote:
Is anyone even looking in these forums?
Thousands of people. Apparently not many folks are interested in this wish - which is limited to those people who have a SpaceNavigator.

Dwight was the first person here to get a SN when they first came out. His reports convinced me to get one. I hate working in 3D without one - but even though I've demonstrated it for many clients, and the cost is reasonably low - I don't know of any of them who have bought one. I bought one as a gift for one of them, and am not sure he even uses it.

I agree that 2D pan/zoom would be nice to have as an option. I generally don't need it - as one hand is on the keyboard and the other on the mouse when in 2D ... but there are all kinds of times when it would be really helpful: measuring with the measure tool, dimensioning, eye-droppering from one place to another... all kinds of things where middle-button dragging or dragging the Preview zoom-box is not as fast as the SN would be...

Cheers,
Karl
One of the forum moderators   •   AC 25 USA and earlier   •   MacOS 11.6, iMac Pro

rwallis
Newcomer
I have not had the opportunity to use my Space Navigator mouse in other software, and therefore am not aware on what functionality we are missing out on!
If there is more that can be done - I'd agree! 😉
I saw they are prepping addons for google earth etc but as they are beta I don't want to put on my production PC at work...
rtw
ac19 + cadimage design suite
w: Win10 (64bit) XPS15, 32GB, dual 19"

svenl
Newcomer
Now that our wish has come true, the space navigator is working in 2D, I'm having 2 problems:

1.The up-down axes are reversed from right-left. To pan to the left you push to the left. But to pan up, you push down. Changing the setting in 3D connexxion preference seems to have no affect on this.

2. the navigator is sensitive to small vibrations. Sometimes small shaking of the keyboard tray makes the 2d drawing move around, and causes latency in AC.

Since it is not useful in 2D, because of the messed up axes thing, I wish there was a way to disable it.

Anyone else having these issues?
AC24, Mojave

Marton Kiss
Graphisoft
Graphisoft
svenl wrote:
1.The up-down axes are reversed from right-left. To pan to the left you push to the left. But to pan up, you push down. Changing the setting in 3D connexxion preference seems to have no affect on this.
Since the new function is out there we've had many request about the ability to change the up and down directs. It looks like there are two different schools of navigation, like we had back in gaming with reverse y axis and like the natural scrolling of OS X. With ArchiCAD 18 we will try to give control in your hands, to change such settings according to your taste.
svenl wrote:
2. the navigator is sensitive to small vibrations. Sometimes small shaking of the keyboard tray makes the 2d drawing move around, and causes latency in AC.
Mine does not result any accidental movements, though I have it on my desk next to the keyboard - I don't have a keyboard tray. I am curious if this is an issue with your particular model only. Anyone else with the same experience?
Marton Kiss
Director, Global Customer Engagement
GRAPHISOFT

svenl
Newcomer
Marton wrote:
svenl wrote:
1.The up-down axes are reversed from right-left. To pan to the left you push to the left. But to pan up, you push down. Changing the setting in 3D connexxion preference seems to have no affect on this.
Since the new function is out there we've had many request about the ability to change the up and down directs. It looks like there are two different schools of navigation, like we had back in gaming with reverse y axis and like the natural scrolling of OS X. With ArchiCAD 18 we will try to give control in your hands, to change such settings according to your taste.
svenl wrote:
2. the navigator is sensitive to small vibrations. Sometimes small shaking of the keyboard tray makes the 2d drawing move around, and causes latency in AC.
Mine does not result any accidental movements, though I have it on my desk next to the keyboard - I don't have a keyboard tray. I am curious if this is an issue with your particular model only. Anyone else with the same experience?
I have mine on a heavy duty drawer style keyboard tray. The main problem occurs when keying into the numeric pallets to manually enter distances. As you type, the slight jiggles causes it to reject the entry.
AC24, Mojave

Marton Kiss
Graphisoft
Graphisoft
svenl wrote:
I have mine on a heavy duty drawer style keyboard tray. The main problem occurs when keying into the numeric pallets to manually enter distances. As you type, the slight jiggles causes it to reject the entry.
Thanks, I will check with the dev folks to see what we can do to avoid this.

Marton
Marton Kiss
Director, Global Customer Engagement
GRAPHISOFT

svenl
Newcomer
This was really driving me crazy, but I figured it out! Just go to the 'axes' tab in the 3dconnexion preferences pane, and (with the archicad application selected) bump up the threshold slider to a higher level for each individual axes. For me, the first notch was more than enough to reduce the initial sensitivity to a level where it doesn't make things jumpy.
AC24, Mojave

Marton Kiss
Graphisoft
Graphisoft
svenl wrote:
This was really driving me crazy, but I figured it out! Just go to the 'axes' tab in the 3dconnexion preferences pane, and (with the archicad application selected) bump up the threshold slider to a higher level for each individual axes. For me, the first notch was more than enough to reduce the initial sensitivity to a level where it doesn't make things jumpy.
Thanks for posting the solution. I was searching for a similar sensitivity or treshold setting, but had an older driver. There are plenty of new options with the new. Nice job 3DConnexion team.

Marton
Marton Kiss
Director, Global Customer Engagement
GRAPHISOFT

Still looking?

Browse more topics

Back to forum

See latest solutions

Accepted solutions

Start a new discussion!