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Composite adjustable thickness

Vasileios S_
Booster

Hello everybody,

 

Can we have adjustable thickness to a composite?

 

For example, I want to have a composite of "concrete-insulation-stone", instead of:

150concrete-100insulation-50stone

150concrete-50insulation-50stone

150concrete-100insulation-100stone

150concrete-50insulation-100stone etc...

 

I believe this is crucial.

 

Vassilis

 

40 REPLIES 40

SenecaDesignLLC
Booster

You can accomplish this with custom profiles.

AC 24, Twinmotion current, Windows 11, Msi 10UG with rtx 3070, wacom intuos pro m, Wacom Cintiq Pro 16, razer Tartarus pro.

Vasileios S_
Booster

Custom profiles are a different thing. For example, when creating a slab, you cannot have a custom profile, since it would only work in a rectangular slab of specific dimensions.

 

I've seen this wish a couple of years ago, but I cannot find it again, thus I created this topic.

That makes sense, I dont use composite slabs, just assumed you meant walls. Sorry

AC 24, Twinmotion current, Windows 11, Msi 10UG with rtx 3070, wacom intuos pro m, Wacom Cintiq Pro 16, razer Tartarus pro.

DGSketcher
Mentor

I'm sitting on the fence with this. Yes it could be achieved by allowing stretch planes for each skin or even localised override/editing of skin widths, BUT, I also like to know when I use a particular composite for a wall type or a slab etc that the skins are effectively hard coded so I don't find I have shown 105mm of concrete when it should be 100mm, due to copying attributes or accidental stretching. It is also a lot easier to update drawings when you change a composite as all the elements that use it should change to the latest values. How do you decide when a composite is changed whether an edited skin is updated or retains it's changed width?

Apple iMac macOS Big Sur / AC24UKI (most recent builds)

My answer to the points you mention are these:

 

1. Accidental stretching

It's the same as the profiles. If you accidentally stretch a modifier in a column profile (not width or height), how do you know it?

2. Copying attributes

When applying a composite "A" to a wall that doesn't already use it, it should get its default thicknesses. When applying the composite "A" to many walls and one of these walls already uses it and has set different thicknesses, you should get a warning "Apply changes to custom thicknesses too". Just like when you have a slab with a custom edge material and change the edge surface. You get a red triangle with a checkbox.

3. Altering composite

When altering a composite that has materials A-B-C and change the thickness of A, you should also get this warning if some element has a different A thickness than the default.

Steve Jepson
Expert

Is what you want to do adding Profile Modifiers so you can adjust the widths of the skins for a wall in 3d or section ?    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3Z3JIgIUoM   

ArchiCAD 25 3011 USA - Windows 10 Pro 64x - Dell 7720 64 GB 2400MHz ECC - Xeon E3 1535M v6 4.20GHz - (2) 1TB M.2 PCIe Class 50 SSD's - 17.3" UHD IPS (3840x2160) - Nvidia Quadro P5000 16GB GDDR5 - Maxwell Studio/Render 5.2.1.49 Multilight 2.1.0.1

No. In your video, this method works for skin heights. I want to change the thicknesses of it. I know I can add more modifiers to a profile, but profiles do not work with slabs or roofs, because they are not a "lenghty" constuction element that has a specific profile.

 

When designing a slab, you can have a plan view that's not rectangular (as in most of the cases) and apply a composite like this "Concrete-subfloor-floor". When you use 3 different thicknesses for concrete, 2 for subfloor and 5 for floors, that's a total of 30 different composites. I think we should have all of these in one.

To be fair, you have answered your own problem. You don't really need 30 composites, you just need to break the floor into relevant elements, which you may want to do for quantities anyway. So in your case you only need 10 composites or less. If a skin of your build up is a single material (not composite) e.g. concrete, then it is stretchy by default. The more you bind layers together the more you will end up with junction / connection problems with other elements.

Apple iMac macOS Big Sur / AC24UKI (most recent builds)

So the answer to this is that I should not use composites? That's a no! Imagine have a roof with a composite of 5 materials. If you change the pitch, all change automatically. If there are 5 seperate roofs, then apart from the pitch, you should manually change each one's height. No! Totally no!

Yes you should use composites. If you change the roof pitch then the composite build up simply rotates and maintains the same thickness. Why would you need to change each one's height, is that what happens on site?

Sorry, just trying to help.

Apple iMac macOS Big Sur / AC24UKI (most recent builds)

I am sorry if I did not express it correctly. I thought you said that the solution is to NOT use composites but single materials. And I answered that this is a total NO because it would bring those problems (i.e. the roof problem).

 

I'll show you what I mean. Look at this image:

different_composites.jpg

Instead of having 6 different composites for my concrete-insulation types, can we have just one? It would be super-easier to work with.

Well I kind of did say don't use a composite, depending on your work flow. A single material is stretchy. In my world I would potentially place the concrete on a layer for structure and the insulation on a layer for finishes. In other situations I would just create the six floor types which is quick & easy and then I know if I reference a Type 3 floor it has 200 of concrete and 100 insulation. Sometimes it isn't just about modelling, you also need to consider documenting in details, specifications and schedules. Reference to a Type is easy, consistent and simple to maintain, having to reference / check multiple drawings for thicknesses & labelling can be a pain and error prone once localised edits are introduced on anything other than a small project. This is why I said I was sitting on the fence originally. 

Apple iMac macOS Big Sur / AC24UKI (most recent builds)

Well, DGSketcher, you got a point that it would may be more difficult for documenting, but... I don't know. In my case, I would want that feature. Maybe I do not use documentation so much to come across the difficulty of this.

-

You can solve this modeling situation by defining a Composite with 250 concrete + 100 insulation, then by placing horizontal openings into the Slab to cut out the parts that are not needed.

That is, if you use Archicad 24 or later because earlier versions did not have the Opening Tool.

These Openings will be linked to the Slab so they will move with the Slab, and I think they will even give you a proper floor plan display as well.

In the following screenshot I have selected the Openings I have placed into the Slab.

 

SlabwOpenings.png

 

....................................................................................................
Laszlo Nagy, Lead Moderator, Community Admin
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Loving Archicad since 1995

Thanks Laszlo for the reply. This is a workaround for sure. I currently use Archicad 22, so no openings for me. But I'm not asking of how I can achieve this, I currently model with 6 different composites, and that solves my problem.

 

But can we have adjustable thicknesses in composites as modifiers, just like profiles?

OK, understand.

So your wish is parametric Composite Structure skin thicknesses.

Actually, I like this wish a lot, I think it offers a lot of potential. Each skin of the Composite could be set to a constant or an adjustable thickness, and these thicknesses could be graphically edited by clicking any of the individual edges of a placed Slab, including edges of Slab holes (just like we can  graphically adjust the sizes of each Column/Beam segment individually). 

If we had this, it would open up a lot of possibilities, including Flat Roofs with sloping Composite skins.

....................................................................................................
Laszlo Nagy, Lead Moderator, Community Admin
Get Archicad Tips at https://twitter.com/laszlonagy
AMD Ryzen 1700X CPU, 48 GB RAM, NVidia GTX 1060 6GB, 500 GB NVMe SSD
2x28" (2560x1440), WIN10 PRO ENG, AC20-AC25
Loving Archicad since 1995

Yes I think it is a good idea too.

Just like we have modifiers in complex profiles, but because you can't use a complex profile in a slab, we would need a modifier in the composite.

 

Barry.


One of the forum moderators.
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Exactly Laszlo and Barry!

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