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GDL Editor - Again

Hubert Wagner
Participant

Hello Forum :

I attempted to post this in a past thread but the post was got lost in the process.

 

I began using Archicad 9 because I was led to believe it would allow me to model a 3D timber structure in great detail. i.e. every 3D object was real and fitted into the structure precisely in 3D space.

 

I soon found Archicad didn’t have the tools I need. Posts and beams are only useful in that context if one can define these structures precisely. In a timber building there are hundreds of mortice and tenon joints secured with wooden pins. Archicad ignores this. So I began to design my own objects using GDL. That took up a lot of time but allowed me to do some useful work. (I know there's a timber frame add on to AC but this is expensive and far too complicated for my level of work).

 

Today, I’m using Archicad 19. I still use the GDLs I wrote but now I find them restrictive in many ways. A GDL which defines, say, a post with tenons at each end where length, width, offset etc. can be defined quickly in a dialog as required is still limited. One cannot anticipate every possible variation. What if I need to take a bite out of one corner? So, the GDLs I spend hours writing are not in the end the final answer.

 

I realized this when I can across Sharpr3D. However, whether that software has its own limitations remains to be seen.

 

Archicad would be perfect if a 3D object could be designed in the way it is done in Sketchup or Shapr3D and then stored as a library item in the usual way. And of course all parameters of that object must be available in the Bill of Materials. I’d prefer that be done by drawing in plan or elevation views and extruding but I guess I could live with a modern (non-steam powered) GDL editor.

 

Best Wishes : Hubert Wagner

8 REPLIES 8

DGSketcher
Advisor

If you upgraded to AC23 beams & columns got a major upgrade which when combined with the use of complex profiles would probably solve a lot of your modelling issues...

https://helpcenter.graphisoft.com/user-guide-chapter/85002/#XREF_67017_Beam_and_Column

 

Apple iMac macOS Big Sur / AC24UKI (most recent builds)

Thank you for the URL.

 

I’ve looked at the sections but do not see the level of detail I was describing, namely posts and beams with custom tenons and mortices. (Hole drilling would be useful as well)

 

I imagine considerable coding effort that must have gone into these modifications, yet they are still limited. I hesitate to compare  them with my GDL efforts nevertheless the same problem seems to occur. They only allow what has already been imagined by the developer. Novel modifications to posts or beams imagined by a user cannot be made.

 

Angled End Cuts and Segment Joins

•Angle of Beam and Column ends can now be customized, per end, to be horizontal, vertical or custom (such as 90 degrees perpendicular).

 

Could the routine handle say a beam end where a third of the end is cut at an angle and the other two thirds is not?

 

If the user has access to the geometry on the screen with his mouse this could be done in seconds without all the coding overhead.

  

Sub-Element/Element level Data Management

I note the ability to set load-bearing vs non-load-bearing status.

It would be useful if a beam could be defined and then a sub-routine called to check it’s structural adequacy. Selecting the parts of the structure which bear on the beam could be part of the input. Even a general calculation might be enough for a domestic level structure.

 

Regards : Hubert Wagner

DGSketcher
Advisor

I wouldn't get too excited about the structural aspect, unless you are doing large post & beam structures with the right engineer & software. Not really my area.

On the modelling front it is surprising what can be achieved using complex profiles, breaking the beams & columns into chained segments and applying tapers & end cuts. The end cuts are a bit limiting if you don't preplan for them. Do some searching & youtubeing which might offer a bit more insight.

I knocked this up in AC24 as a single beam, does this cover the kind of thing you are doing?

Screenshot 2021-09-12 at 16.46.34.png

Apple iMac macOS Big Sur / AC24UKI (most recent builds)

Thank you for making the effort to illustrate.

 

The beam is interesting. I like the detailing, particularly the chamfer on the top and bottom edges. (Those would be useful if they could be applied to a post). Could that chamfer be a rabbet instead? A rabbet could take the ends of floor boards.

 

Given a beam section of 10 x 15 cm, can the tenon be set to some set of dimensions that are not 10 cm high? Can the tenon be offset to one side for example? Could there be two tenons, a short stub and a long tenon that goes through a post to a beam on the other side?

 

If we have this beam finished with tenons on both ends, and neglecting the detailing on the sides, can the beam be described completely in a bill of materials? For example the total length of the beam includes the tenons. If the BOM reports the beam without the tenons someone will be fired for ordering short stock ! And it would be useful if the BOM included details of the tenon dimensions. (I do that with my GDL scripts).

 

Regards : Hubert Wagner

What DGSketcher has shown you is applicable to both beams and columns.

You place a segment (along the length for beams, height for columns) for each profile that is different.

Each segment can be a completely different size from the previous one although they all share a common axis line along the entire beam/column.

Using complex profiles for the segment, you can basically create any cross section shape you want - even two tenons.

To make one tenon short and the other longer, you want two segment - one with two tenons and one with just one.

 

The length of each segment can be fixed or adjustable proportionally with the overall length of the beam/column.

 

You can even use modifiers in the complex profiles so you can adjust the shape of each segment and each segment can taper to a larger or smaller segment next to it.

 

Maybe watch some videos on the Archicad YouTube channel.

 

https://www.youtube.com/user/Archicad/videos

 

Scroll down to the ones for version 23 - that is when the segmented beams and columns were introduced.

They won't show you every possibility, but they should give you a good idea.

 

If you can show some images of what you need, I am sure we can say if it is possible or not.

Warning, you will end up with a lot of complex profiles, so name them carefully so you can group them to make them easier to find in the list (they can be renamed at any time).

 

 

Segmented columns and beams may not be quite as good as a well scripted and adjustable object.

But you don't need to know anything about GDL scripting.

 

Barry.

 

PS holes can also be placed in beams (not columns) and even the new opening tool can be used (again for beams not columns).

 

Here are a couple of example columns I have posted previously.

Each image is just one segmented column with nothing else added.

 

Barry.

segmented_column.jpg

 

segmented_column_2.jpg

 

 


One of the forum moderators.
Versions 6.5 to 25
Dell XPS- i7-6700 @ 3.4Ghz, 16GB ram, GeForce GTX 960 (2GB), Windows 10
Dell Precision 3510 - i7 6820HQ @ 2.70GHz, 16GB RAM, AMD FirePro W5130M, Windows 10


@Barry Kelly wrote:

 

PS holes can also be placed in beams (not columns) and even the new opening tool can be used (again for beams not columns).

 

Here are a couple of example columns I have posted previously.

Each image is just one segmented column with nothing else added.

 

Barry.

 


Wouldnt it be beneficial to use SEO for holes? That way they can be easily changed,, added or deleted fairly accurately. Aslo dimensioning and correct labelels using associative labels (for diameter and bore perhaps) could be added relatively easily.

From Archicad 8.5 all the way to the present.
Passionate Autocad hater as well.

The new opening tool is basically an SEO.

Except you don’t need another element that you have to hide.
In 25 they can be any shape and the shape can be changed like any polygon.

They can be labelled just like any other element.

It just doesn’t work with columns for some reason.

 

Barry.


One of the forum moderators.
Versions 6.5 to 25
Dell XPS- i7-6700 @ 3.4Ghz, 16GB ram, GeForce GTX 960 (2GB), Windows 10
Dell Precision 3510 - i7 6820HQ @ 2.70GHz, 16GB RAM, AMD FirePro W5130M, Windows 10

DGSketcher
Advisor

That beam is simply a collection of complex profiles chained together with a common base point, so you could change their position & size to suit and even have two fill rectangles either side of the base point in the complex profile to form a tenon pocket. The same process can be applied to columns. I am reasonably confident that the answer to most of your questions is Yes.

You clearly have a lot of detailed questions, perhaps you could get hold of a recent trial version to see whether it can do what you want as I wouldn't want to see someone fired for ordering short stock. 😰😀

Apple iMac macOS Big Sur / AC24UKI (most recent builds)

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