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Graphic Override: Fill Orientation Option

Braza
Newcomer
The ability to specify the fill orientation within the Graphic Override.
Details are descripted here:
https://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=58017
https://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=73947
A suggestion for implementation could be like this:
Paulo Henrique Santos, Architect
AC24_INT#3008 / I7 / 16Gb / 512Mb SSD / Windows 10
20 REPLIES 20

Podolsky
Newcomer
It can be done automatically. Just if original fill set to fit the skin, then overrides do the same. Also following original fill origin and proportion. No need to add more and more buttons to interface. ArchiCAD already expanding like bread in oven. If we continue like that - one day we will be lost in this forest of parameters. Not huge amount of parameters available for user making software parametric.

Braza
Newcomer
Podolsky wrote:
It can be done automatically. Just if original fill set to fit the skin
And what if its a composite or CP wall with non "Fit to Skin" BM?
Paulo Henrique Santos, Architect
AC24_INT#3008 / I7 / 16Gb / 512Mb SSD / Windows 10

Podolsky
Newcomer
That means - set it to be fit in skin in BM interface. How often do you need it? For insulation mostly.

Braza
Newcomer
Hey Podolsky. Did you read the links in the first post?
If you have a working solution for that, I am sure Aaron will offer you a couple of beers.
Paulo Henrique Santos, Architect
AC24_INT#3008 / I7 / 16Gb / 512Mb SSD / Windows 10

Podolsky
Newcomer
The initial post is saying about marking fire-rating of walls. In USA.
I did hear before on this forum opinion that in USA doesn't exist CAD standard. It does exist. And according to NCS fire rating mast look as attached. Anyone of course can introduce their method - but what the point to re-invent the wheel. So it is a line with symbols. Maybe we need look into lines - how to override them. Something similar that Barry were writing. I'm thinking about this problem in any case so I might ask for beer then one day.

Podolsky
Newcomer
Ok, this is the solution to the problem.

1. We need to place a line somehow in the middle of the wall (any configuration) in plan and possibly in section. In section we also might have a line in the middle of slab and roof. It must be line, not symbol fill, to avoid problems exporting drawing to DWG. I guess AutoCAD can have fire rated lines already in standard settings - let say in AutoCAD Architecture. If yes - match these lines with ArchiCAD lines in translator.
2. We can use automatic placement of labels - when selecting all walls on plan and use command 'Label Selected Elements'. In USA version this command even placed as a button on top strip of standard toolbar. In INT version hidden somewhere in Document menu. Don't recall where exactly.
3. Label knows its XY location to project origin: LABEL_POSITION
4. Label also knows position of the wall, length and rotation angle: WALL_POSITION, WALL_DIRECTION, WALL_THICKNESS and another details as radius of curved wall.
5. Label can read property of the wall and receive fire rating value.
6. Quite simple to figure out on plan position of the line in the middle of the wall and choose right line-type for different fire-rating value. Labels can be placed in separate layer shown on fire strategy plans only.
7. A little bit more complicated in section. X position on screen can be problematic to detect automatically, but at least we can know exact Y (wall height). Same with slabs - X coordinate for slab then can be adjusted manually. But sections with fire rating is not needed so often, so it's manageable.

I can create such labels. And upload to this forum and BIM components.
Beer please.

Braza
Newcomer
Podolsky wrote:
We can use automatic placement of labels
Great idea. Looks like a potential solution.

Podolsky wrote:
I can create such labels. And upload to this forum and BIM components.
Beer please.
Looks like someone is going to get wasted.
Paulo Henrique Santos, Architect
AC24_INT#3008 / I7 / 16Gb / 512Mb SSD / Windows 10

Aaron Bourgoin
Booster
This does look interesting. Is there a Python component to this workflow? That is, find the centreline of the wall, regardless of the reference line, and place poly lines that read the F.R.R. property of the wall?
Think Like a Spec Writer
AC23-3003 USA / AC24-4018 USA
Rhino 7 Mac
OSX 10.14.6 & 11.3.1

Braza
Newcomer
I think it can be done with pure GDL. Theoretically labels can get the exact position and rotation, as well as the width of a wall. We can then script a Line2 right in the middle of the wall.
Paulo Henrique Santos, Architect
AC24_INT#3008 / I7 / 16Gb / 512Mb SSD / Windows 10

Podolsky
Newcomer
The only hidden rock here - probably you cannot get information about walls body position to reference line. Then it can be solved in label UI - to choose left, right or centre. And also we can ask Graphisoft to include this information into GDL globals.
I thought that also possible to use wall accessory - then described problem above might not exist. But with labels is faster - ArchiCAD can place all labels using one command, when if using accessories - you need to place each element one by one.
Probably possible to have both - and label and accessory.

Braza
Newcomer
Well... I did some tests and it is way above my knowledge. Too many parameters to define a wall position (Arched or straight included) . Besides this, I see some real pain in the connection between walls... In sum... A nightmare.
For now, I would stick with the "copied-walls-zero-width-exploded-consolidated-symbol-lines".
And wait for a Graphic Override Fill Orientation Option.
Paulo Henrique Santos, Architect
AC24_INT#3008 / I7 / 16Gb / 512Mb SSD / Windows 10

Podolsky
Newcomer
Disagree that this is complicated. Simple mathematic. If you want to program anything - you need to deal with arrays of parameters and algorithms. Take a look for example to MEP pipe - there IS a lot of parameters, but even MEP pipe is not so complicated.

Podolsky
Newcomer
This is promised label. It actually works with straight walls without any problems. I cannot figure out how to get curved wall radius (most likely it's GDL limitation), because of that curvature needs to be adjusted manually via editable hotspots. But because usually majority of walls are straight - it's not a big problem.
The workflow is very simple. You need to have property for your fire-rating values (must be string) in ArchiCAD. By default I set the property name from USA standard template. Label UI contains field where to enter property name and 9 fields for each value and 9 line types: from 1 to 4 hours, 1 to 4 hours with smoke barrier and just smoke barrier.
You need to set these values names the same as in template.
After set fire-rating value for each wall. Select a level first. Then select all walls. Use 'label all elements' command. ArchiCAD will place all labels in the middle of the wall, following correct wall length, position and rotation - as one-click solution. Editable hotspots let to change line length and curvature, if needed.
Don't forget to choose right layer for these labels. It's suppose to be F-WALL-ANNO or just F-ANNO - if I understand NCS correct.
I didn't add support for sections yet, but probably it's not needed. If needed - can be added later.
I think that label's UI can be moved to MVO - but it's can be done later, as library will progress and grow.

Write me PM how to send me beer.

Braza
Newcomer
Hey Podolsky,
I didn't say it was impossible... Just beyond of my knowledge. My GDL kungfu is not that strong.
Your GDL skills are very impressive. Specially by doing this in this short time. Even if I had the stamina, I would probably need months to achieve part of this. Basically I just use brute force (trial/error) for my GDL math.
I checked your label and it seems its working almost perfectly. I can see that the connections between lines are not mitering. I understand that the label can not know what is the width of adjoining walls, but I think that if you assume that they are the same of the labeled wall it would miter properly. And then we could use the editable hotspots for fine tune (which I presume you put it there for this purpose ). I also put it to some stress regarding changing wall direction and reference line offset... It respond flawlessly. Very impressive. The arched line option is missing, but you included an editable hotspot to manually edit it. Very handy while waiting for an automatic solution. Anyway... Thanks for your contribution. I am sure a lot of users will benefit from your label object.
Cheers,

p.s.: But I still think that the GO Fill Orientation Option would be the ideal solution, as it could automatically add the symbolic fill thru specific criteria.
Paulo Henrique Santos, Architect
AC24_INT#3008 / I7 / 16Gb / 512Mb SSD / Windows 10

Podolsky
Newcomer
Thank you very much.
Use of symbol fill for that purpose is not good. You need a line, because NCS states it must be line, and in AutoCAD it must be shown as a line (if we assume - we don't care how to show it in ArchiCAD as a line or symbol fill).

To write the code took me one evening. Maybe 4-5 hours max. For hotspots I used parts from biarc object - where I created formulas how to define an arc having three spots.

I cannot imagine what you would do one month with this object. Maybe simply you need a proper GDL tutor?
Maybe you need take a chance and start learning from me - especially when I offer to teach (I even had a post in this forum, where I was looking for students to teach)? Because I also cannot wait forever. I could say - what the damn forum - people are projecting their egos and nothing interesting happen, I'll go find how to busy myself in this life.

Braza
Newcomer
Podolsky wrote:
Maybe simply you need a proper GDL tutor?
Thank you very much for the offer. Really. But I know that GDL and coding in general is kind of a rabbit hole. My interesting in GDL is becoming more like watching Bruce Lee movies. I know a few tricks... But to get in this kind of level would need too much from my time while having other projects.
Paulo Henrique Santos, Architect
AC24_INT#3008 / I7 / 16Gb / 512Mb SSD / Windows 10

Podolsky
Newcomer
Well, if you like Bruce Lee movies - watch the last Tarantino movie - where Brad Pitt kicks ...s of Bruce Lee. Bruce Lee in real life was really annoying a...le. Maybe it's time to face reality?

Braza
Newcomer
Well... Tarantino has his opinion. This was reality in 1967.

Paulo Henrique Santos, Architect
AC24_INT#3008 / I7 / 16Gb / 512Mb SSD / Windows 10

Podolsky
Newcomer
yes, we will speak now here about anything apart how to improve GDL skills...

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