Wishes
Post your wishes about Graphisoft products: Archicad, BIMx, BIMcloud, and DDScad.

I think Archicad has a lot of work to do

Anonymous
Not applicable
I don't want to come across as simply an angry rant using this forum to vent. Neither do I want this post to be a bullet point by bullet point comparison of architectural software. I do however would like this to be a virtual bitch slap up side the head of Graphisoft.

I've been using this program now for over 6 months and I have to say it's painfully obvious why Archicad can't really compete against the evil empire of autodesk. I find myself, on almost a daily basis muttering something along the lines of "oh you gotta be kidding me'.

This has nothing to do with the overall quality of the actual architectural side of the software. The walls look like walls, windows looks like windows, the automated door schedule feature is just as useless as the automated door schedule feature in every other piece of CAD software, et al. But this has everything to do with the interface and organization of the program.

I can easily look past a lot of the foibles that come with any software at this level of complexity. For example recently my 'areas' have been turning the default back ground color on and off for no apparent reason. What I can't over look is some of the 1998 style of interface and organization in 2008. The "why use one click when three clicks will do the same job" mentality. For instance:

Text editing - When the user double clicks on a text field the software should understand that the user wants to...oh, I dunno.... edit the text maybe. There is no reason that the user should have to first select the text, then select the text box, then click in the text field to edit the text.

Dimensioning - This is the weakest dimensioning tool I've ever seen or heard of. Again, no reason to have to click the dimension, then the command to edit, double clicking is our friend, use it. But here in Archicad they add another step, if you want to add custom text there's a secret menu, select the dimension and then double click on the text command and a different edit menu appears! WHAT THE...!? No no no no....select the dimension, right click and voila EVERY edit possible is right there including changing the line types of the dimensions legs.

I don't want to beat this into the ground but.... dimensioning in AC is pathetic to the level of being unbelievable. CAD software that costs a fraction of AC dimension so much better.

These 'hidden' edit menus have me red with rage at times because there is no reason for them at all. Every piece of software out there got rid of these over 10 years ago. Mind you, I'm not referring to just CAD software when I say 'every piece of software', I mean every piece of software that wasn't written by some lone guy in a basement. Photoshop, Excel, Pages and Word grew past this a long long time ago and I'm afraid it speaks volumes that AC hasn't.

Drafting - I understand that, and was sold on the virtues of, BIM. That Archicad was so completely 3D that everything I drew was going to be part of a model. Wow, do I want to sue the guy who sold me this line of utter crap.

The fact is that I still need to do a lot of 2D work, which I'm okay with. What I'm not okay with is that the simplest part of a CAD program, the 2D part, has been striped down to a point that it's a serious pain to have to do it. So as a result I'm doing at least 30% of my work in a $99 CAD program I picked up at Office Depot and importing that into my $2500+ CAD program because it works better! Now that pisses me off to no end!

Now beyond the failings of the CAD portion of the program comes the little annoying, really bad software writing.

Things like widows opening with the "close, minimize and maximize" buttons under the tools bars! God that's annoying.

Horizontal tool bars that don't change to vertical tool bars when you drag them to the right or left side.

This is one of the only programs where "shift + tab" doesn't toggle the open screens.

Nothing 'big' seems wrong with AC. Walls trim, the layers are dandy, elevations are fine, but little seems right with the little things.

I really hate to say that at this point I'm having to seriously consider taking the monetary loss and trashing my AC and moving on. It's just that bad, and it's that bad for no reason at all. It's not like the programers have to start from scratch, all they have to do is get is clean it up a bit and it'll be fine.
22 REPLIES 22
Erika Epstein
Booster
Chrisdell wrote:
I was a little hesitant because it seems like so often the packaged tutorials are often based on the 3D part of the program which is something that I'm not very interested in at this point in time. I'm more interested in producing quality construction documents efficiently,


I think you might be missing a key point of the importance of the 3D model. Your details are started from the model.The accuracy and detail level of your modeling is what will get you your 'quality construction documents' and efficiently.
Erika
Architect, Consultant
MacBook Pro Retina, 15-inch Yosemite 2.8 GHz Intel Core i7 16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
Mac OSX 10.11.1
AC5-18
Onuma System

"Implementing Successful Building Information Modeling"
Chazz
Enthusiast
Erika wrote:
I think you might be missing a key point of the importance of the 3D model. Your details are started from the model.The accuracy and detail level of your modeling is what will get you your 'quality construction documents' and efficiently.
Amen sister.

. . . .

There are doubtless much better dedicated 2D drafting packages out there. But to really get into AC you need to take the RED PILL and commit to going 3D (Morphius would say "being 3D").

The consensus on this forum seems to be that you should model to 90% and draft the last 10% (whatever that means). Personally, I think I go further and feel the better for it. Drafting is for weak bladdered sissies. Just build it.

And not to knock Christopher's $2500 investment, or to kick him when he's assumed the fetal position but when I saw the list of stuff missing from the Start Edition I thought, "oh, this is for practices who need a cheeper second seat for doing some of the production". I do not think it is an appropriate choice for a sole practitioner. I wouldn't want to use it anyway.

Hang in there Christopher. I think it is healthy to rant (I've certainly done my share) but it may be more productive to put your expectation of a reasonable user-experience aside and start to think like an over caffeinated, under managed Hungarian software developer with a mean deadline. That seems to be key.
Nattering nabob of negativism
2023 MBP M2 Max 32GM. MaxOS-Current
Eduardo Rolon
Moderator
AFAIK the Start Edition is not compatible with the Regular Edition, the file has limitations like the EDU and it is usually one Regular Version behind, AC11 Start equals a limited AC10.
Eduardo Rolón AIA NCARB
AC27 US/INT -> AC08

Macbook Pro M1 Max 64GB ram, OS X 10.XX latest
another Moderator

Laura Yanoviak
Advocate
ejrolon wrote:
AFAIK the Start Edition is not compatible with the Regular Edition, the file has limitations like the EDU and it is usually one Regular Version behind, AC11 Start equals a limited AC10.
But it is compatible with AC9 (yikes!) see comments here...
MacBook Pro Apple M2 Max, 96 GB of RAM
AC26 US (5002) on Mac OS Ventura 13.5
Eduardo Rolon
Moderator
I stand corrected.
Eduardo Rolón AIA NCARB
AC27 US/INT -> AC08

Macbook Pro M1 Max 64GB ram, OS X 10.XX latest
another Moderator

Anonymous
Not applicable
Hi:

Well, i´ve been using archicad for 8/9 months now, and really understand a lot of that frustration. While i had some training initially (1 week course), and have used several other cad and design apps, i still find the whole "ergonomics" (if that actual term applies) of ac really bad. While i do get the advantage of working in 3d, keeping all documents organized and updated, and actually like the 2d drafting portion of ac, i still feel frustrated on a daily basis. Why?

Well, for one, teamwork. The project i´m working on uses it. It´s the fact that you can´t make a mistake, or that you can´t change anything without going in as team leader, or even worse, team leader with exclusive access (hey guys, can you please take a break for a couple of hours while i delete a layer/complex profile/material/penset, etc...

Or the fact that it seems as if gs made the program complex just because they wanted (why complex profile instead of profile???), the zillions of buttons and properties to set for doors/windows, etc. I understand that this options allow for infinite ways to configure things, but for newcomers, that just makes the whole thing more complex. Or, as we say here, just more ways to **** it up. It seems as is gs was accomodating for everyone,but then, that´s it´s biggest problem.

And don´t get me started with the whole windows buttons under the toolbar, that can not be blamed on apple. Photoshop will not do that, sketchup either.

I really see a big advantage vs working 2d, but there has to be an easier way. Archicad was revolutionary in it´s day. Today, all features added, as many other software, the whole thing feels as several different pieces held together with duct tape. Some may say it´s a mature program, vs. say, revit. For me, mature = old. At least, that´s how it feels. Compare it to any modern app, esp. on the mac, (pixelmator comes to mind).

Sorry to be so negative, but really, it´s not against any of you. I know you can get used to it, you can get used to almost anything. It´s more to graphisoft.
Erich
Contributor
Chrisdell,

I have been using ArchiCAD for nearly a year and convinced my office to spring for the virtual training at the begining. It is actually quite good. I found it very useful when first starting out and still refer to it from time to time either for a refresher or to learn some new skill I haven't needed yet.
Erich

AC 19 6006 & AC 20
Mac OS 10.11.5
15" Retina MacBook Pro 2.6
27" iMac Retina 5K
Anonymous
Not applicable
I'm a wee bit hesitant to bring this up because it could sound like a snotty kid saying "I told you so" but it's relevant to this subject and the seriousness of the consequences.

A guy who I met through the friend that convinced me to buy AC (did you follow that?) works at a 10 or 11 person firm that uses AC. They switched a little over a year ago. Now I don't know what training they had or what, but today they came into work to find that every seat of AC had been removed and replaced with Autocad Architectural Desktop. The owner of the firm said that hours billed had TRIPLED since they had moved to AC and since those who used it were still not at a comfortable level of efficiency he decided enough was enough.

He had two guys from Autodesk (or recommended by Autodesk I don't know which) come in on Saturday, convert every job, folder and file back to a 2D system because (according to him) AC and, by extension, BIM is not worth the money to learn.

Just to drive the point home little more about interface and ease of use being vastly more important than having pretty windows to install. At the "surprise we're back to Autocad" meeting this morning he told the staff that it had cost the company so much to switch and go no where that, combined with the recent downturn in the economy, he couldn't guarantee their positions after the first of the year baring a miracle.

That's sit up and take note serious.

In difference to my attempt at a comical rant, this is no joking matter. Peoples livelihoods are at stake due to a "over caffeinated, under managed Hungarian software developer" (I don't mean to pick on you Chazz, it's just poignant). I can only hope that those higher up in Graphisoft will consider the importance of usability before directing the programmers to include some auto updating do-hickey.
Anonymous
Not applicable
Chrisdell wrote:
A guy who I met through the friend that convinced me to buy AC (did you follow that?) works at a 10 or 11 person firm that uses AC. They switched a little over a year ago. Now I don't know what training they had or what, but today they came into work to find that every seat of AC had been removed and replaced with Autocad Architectural Desktop. The owner of the firm said that hours billed had TRIPLED since they had moved to AC and since those who used it were still not at a comfortable level of efficiency he decided enough was enough.
Hi Chrisdell,

Forgive me but I think this guy-who-you-met-through-the-friend-that convinced-you-to-buy-AC don't know what he is doing...

...So he simple switches all his 10 seats from 2d to BIM in one time!...
And worst... In a productive environment... Don't get me wrong, but this is a kamikaze approach...

IMO... To make a smooth move to AC, he should have to started with one or two person learning in a non productive environment... These two guys would be the seeds of the change...

So... What I'd advice you is to make a smooth transition: Keep using autocad in production for a while... lets say... 5 days in a week and leave 2 days to study the AC reference manual, tutorials, e-learning, etc... Take your time... Its kind a "desert cross"... but once you cross it you will get to a oasis...

Ah! and talk less with your guy-who-you-met-through-the-friend-that convinced-you-to-buy-AC.

Welcome aboard and good luck!
Anonymous
Not applicable
This has been a point of discussion for a long time now & still no one at graphisoft seems to bother,

I completely agree that archicad is more a work around software than it is a work software.

we have had 7 licences for 3 years but I am the only one using it for work, 2 of my collegues just use it as a side 3d tool, and i have tried the smooth swithcing approach but it does not work.

Point is that with other softwares you can expect some sort of ouput or drawing or print at the end of the day (from any new user) which you can give out for construction . with AC this would well take 6 months because you cannot give an output unless you have learnt it to a certain level of expertise.

We have recently upgraded to AC12 and that has not helped in any way. I have started a couple of projects in AC and now i am neck deep in them so I cannot convert them to 2D. and I cannot leave them to someone else as nobody is confident (or maybe even willing) to work with archicad.

The UI has to be worked on. Soon I am going to have to answer a lot of questions regarding our spending on the upgradation when no one was using the earlier version itself.

regards

Ameya