Wishes forum
cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

IfcFooting conversion into Archicad elements

GOBA
Newcomer
I would like that IfcFooting (FOOTING_BEAM and PAD_FOOTING) would be converted into beams and slabs, in ArchiCAD, instead than into objects. As @LaszloNagy has told me in this post (https://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?p=305368#p305368), may be there’s a reason that justifies this conversion. If there is such reason, I would like to know it, because it would help to accept the limitation!
ArchiCAD user since November 2109
AC24, Windows 10
13 REPLIES 13

GOBA
Newcomer
Since this is my first wish, and I have recently started using this forum, I don’t know how it works. I suppose that some guys from Graphisoft would read this. And I also suppose that, depending on the subject, some wishes will be implemented, and others won’t. But, is it possible to have a feedback from the company? For example, in this subject, I don’t really know if it’s a limitation of Archicad, or a limitation of the open BIM workflow with IFC. For me, it’s important to know the reason

If it’s a limitation of the IFC, maybe I would write in the BuildingSMART forum.
ArchiCAD user since November 2109
AC24, Windows 10

Nguyen Minh
Graphisoft Moderator
Graphisoft Moderator
Hi,

Thank you for posting this issue here, and I'm sorry about this experience!

My first guess is, as Laszlo has mentioned, this might be hard-coded in ARCHICAD, but I am curious about this issue as well.

I will have our Technical Support team take a look at this, and will reach out to you again here once we conclude the investigation.

Best regards,
Minh

Minh Nguyen
Technical Support Engineer
GRAPHISOFT

GOBA
Newcomer
Hi,

Thank you very much. I am happy to see that GRAPHISOFT, is there, listening to us

Regards,

GOBA
ArchiCAD user since November 2109
AC24, Windows 10

Nguyen Minh
Graphisoft Moderator
Graphisoft Moderator
Hi GOBA,

We have received an explanation from the developer to why the import function behaves like this:

You can use import and export type mappings from the Translator Setup dialogs, but this will only affect Classifications, not native tool types.

What I mean is, you can import an IfcFooting as an Object tool with Beam classification, but cannot import it as a native Beam tool, because the required data to build a proper Beam is not present in the IFC

For example, you place a beam in ARCHICAD and export it as an IfcFurnishingElement. This IfcFurnishingElement according to the IFC Specification cannot contain all the necessary information, so that ARCHICAD could rebuild a proper/native beam from it.

The same goes for import, which in your case, IfcFooting. Due to the lack of information coming from the IFC format, it is not possible to build a proper slab or beam out of its information.

As a conclusion, this behavior comes from the IFC file format structure and rules. Unfortunately, it's not something that we can address on ARCHICAD side.

I hope my explanation is understandable. Let me know if you have any further questions regarding this topic.

Thank you for your understanding! I wish you a great day!

Best regards,
Minh

Minh Nguyen
Technical Support Engineer
GRAPHISOFT

GOBA
Newcomer
Hi mnguyen,

Thank you very much for the explanation. It is, indeed, understandable. But, in order to move forward, could you ask the developer to specify the lack of information? What I mean is that if we are able to detect the information is missing in the IFC, I could post it in the BuildingSMART Forum, and maybe, it can be modified in the future. Maybe not, but I would like to try

Regards,

GOBA
ArchiCAD user since November 2109
AC24, Windows 10

Nguyen Minh
Graphisoft Moderator
Graphisoft Moderator
Hello again,

I have received an explanation from the developer. It's a long one, but it will surely describe in-depth what is going on under the hood that leads to the decision:

First of all, I would like to be more specific about what we told earlier. In this specific case, the IFC may contain enough information to build a proper Beam or Slab, but converting the tool types between one another is very problematic. It is not possible to prepare the code to handle all exceptions to convert one tool type to another tool type (so for example, pad_footing to slab, or IfcSlab to roof and so on).

Furthermore, the IFC format handling's main problem is that different software's implement their export and import based on their toolset. So a properly working cross-software use-case with native tools cannot be guaranteed. I am afraid that even the originating software from which the IFC is exported in your case cannot import the file back and make the footing mentioned a native Beam

On the other hand, ARCHICAD provides a solution in cases of files exported from ARCHICAD and imported back to it, with the classification based export and import type mappings in the IFC Translator Settings. So if you export an IFC from ARCHICAD, it is possible to import it back with all the tool types correctly assigned to all elements.

I can understand this may not be the answer that you expected, but I can only say that, IFC is a means of data exchange rather than a modeling format, therefore, certain limitations are unavoidable!

Let me know if you have any further questions regarding this topic!

Best regards,
Minh

Minh Nguyen
Technical Support Engineer
GRAPHISOFT

GOBA
Newcomer
Hi again!

It’s true, it was not the answer I was expecting It seems more complicated that I thought (I don’t know much about IFC schema), and moreover, it seems nothing can be done… This is hard to accept but ok.
mnguyen wrote:
On the other hand, ARCHICAD provides a solution in cases of files exported from ARCHICAD and imported back to it, with the classification based export and import type mappings in the IFC Translator Settings. So if you export an IFC from ARCHICAD, it is possible to import it back with all the tool types correctly assigned to all elements.
I haven’t been able to do that, with IfcFooting. Can you show me how, please? I modelled the footing in ArchiCAD, using beams and slab tools, export the IFC mapping them into IfcFooting, import the IFC, and the result was that they were imported into objects.

Regards,

GOBA
ArchiCAD user since November 2109
AC24, Windows 10

Nguyen Minh
Graphisoft Moderator
Graphisoft Moderator
Hi GOBA,

Sorry for keeping you waiting!

As I explain in my second reply, here is an example:

If you place a beam in ARCHICAD and export it as an IfcFurnishingElement, this IfcFurnishingElement according to the IFC Specification cannot contain all the necessary information, so that ARCHICAD could rebuild a proper/native beam from it.

The same issue happens if you export a beam as IfcFooting, this will not possible to have it imported back as a native beam in ARCHICAD!

What I meant in the previous reply, ARCHICAD provides a solution in cases of files exported from ARCHICAD and imported back to it. Which means, if you export a beam as IfcBeam, it can be correctly reimported back to ARCHICAD with its settings remain unchanged.

I am sorry for the unclear message! Let me know if you have any further questions! Thank you very much for your interest!

Best regards,
Minh

Minh Nguyen
Technical Support Engineer
GRAPHISOFT

GOBA
Newcomer
Hi minh,

I really appreciate the explanation, and it is clear for a beam, an element that has an specific tool in ArchiCAD.

But, there’s no specific tool in ArchiCAD to model a Footing_Beam, so we use the beam tool. We can export it as IfcFooting \Footing_Beam, after mapping it, but if we import it, it is converted into an object. Ok, ArchiCAD cannot rebuild it in a native beam, for some missing information. I would like to ask you a direct question (I am a very direct person 😞
Is there a solution, in ArchiCAD, or in the IFC file, to solve this?

Since we are in the Wishlist, if there’s no solution, I would like specific tools to model footings.

Regards,

GOBA
ArchiCAD user since November 2109
AC24, Windows 10

runxel
Mentor
GOBA wrote:
Is there a solution, in ArchiCAD, or in the IFC file, to solve this?

Since we are in the Wishlist, if there’s no solution, I would like specific tools to model footings.
Nah, please not another tool for this. (It most probably doesn't even help in this situation.)

I think the solution was quite clear here: IFC just needs to stuff more info into the footing, so any software could rebuild it internally on import.
AC 24 [ger] | Win 10 | Developer of the GDL plugin for Sublime Text |
«Furthermore, I consider that Carth... yearly releases must be destroyed»

GOBA
Newcomer
runxel wrote:
I think the solution was quite clear here: IFC just needs to stuff more info into the footing, so any software could rebuild it internally on import.
Maybe it’s as you say, but, I’m sorry, I just don’t see it as clear as you do. Has anybody identified the specific problem? Does anybody know what’s the missing info, so IFC can be improved? Maybe, there’s no solution.
ArchiCAD user since November 2109
AC24, Windows 10

Nguyen Minh
Graphisoft Moderator
Graphisoft Moderator
Hi GOBA,

Thank you for your question. Considering the IFC format, I can see the point to why we may need to have a dedicated tool for this. I have entered a new wish into our WishList database (please refer to it as #12633). I hope that the Product Management team might consider it in a future version.

Thank you very much! I wish you all a great day!

Best regards,
Minh

Minh Nguyen
Technical Support Engineer
GRAPHISOFT

GOBA
Newcomer
Hi Minh,

Thank you very much!

Regards,

GOBA
ArchiCAD user since November 2109
AC24, Windows 10

Still looking?

Browse more topics

Back to forum

See latest solutions

Accepted solutions

Start a new discussion!